Thinking Anglicans

Opinion – 9 January 2021

Jonathan Draper Afterthoughts Religion and the Right

Robin Stockitt and S John Dawson Church Times Why Donewiths never darken the doors again
“If their deeply felt longings are not met, some church people will head for the exit”

Martin Sewell Surviving Church Dean Percy and the case for specialist professional competence

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Froghole
Froghole
6 months ago

This may also be germane to the Donewith article, though it is behind a paywall: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/can-church-england-survive-covid/; it strikes me as being a broadly dispassionate assessment of the current situation.

Michael
Michael
Reply to  Froghole
6 months ago

I thought the Harry Mount piece in the Telegraph Magazine was a bit insipid. At least one TA regular will be cheesed off because yet again there was a picture of Archbishop Welby in his kitchen on Easter Day. He will never be allowed to forget such a poor decision. As the current lockdown is about to tighten, places of worship will probably once more be instructed to close, although many C of E churches have either made that decision already or have remained closed since March 2020. I don’t suppose I’ll be the only newly minted Donewith come Easter,… Read more »

Richard W. Symonds
Richard W. Symonds
6 months ago

Re: Martin Sewell Surviving Church

A superb forensic analysis of this gross on-going injustice – thank you.

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
6 months ago

Anglicans can be proud that among the fascist-leaning religions of the American right cited by Jonathan Draper, TEC stands as a small bastion of sanity and Christian tolerance in a nation of religious fanatics.. With an inspiring African-American Presiding bishop, TEC stands in sharp contrast to the hate-filled, non-inclusive fundamentalists who have supported a lying narcissist who has brought shame on a great country. With splinter groups like ACNA and GAFCON, the tolerant witness of TEC is more vital than ever. It is a great irony that Trump chose an Episcopal Church as a photo-opportunity to display his hypocrisy when… Read more »

ACI
ACI
Reply to  FrDavid H
6 months ago

“TEC stands as a small bastion of sanity” — joined by (the larger) ELCA, UMC, PCUSA, Christianity Today editorial board, as well as old-line liberal denominations like UCC, Disciples of Christ, (non-Southern) Baptists, Mennonites, Unitarians, Quakers and the list goes on. Raphael Warnock, of Ebenezer Baptist (“God-d-mn America”), was just elected a Senator in Georgia.

St John’s (Church of the Presidents, including two Episcopal and UMC Presidents Bush) is next door to the White House.

You might profit from a basic course in American religious sociology.

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
Reply to  ACI
6 months ago

I didn’t state TEC is the only bastion of sanity. It is the only Anglican Church in the USA and, therefore, one of which we, in our Communion, should be proud – despite its size. This site is Thinking Anglicans. Not Thinking Mennonites et al. I’m fully aware of the site of St John’s Church. Obviously Republicans and evangelicals are having a painful time at present containing, as they do, many religious fanatics cited by Jonathan Draper.

ACI
ACI
Reply to  FrDavid H
6 months ago

Christianity Today may well be the biggest evangelical publication in the USA. It has NEVER been a fan of the President.

You have recourse to inflammatory language (“hate-filled, non-inclusive fundamentalists”) soon to be banned by Twitter. But only for select groups.

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
Reply to  ACI
6 months ago

Jonathan Draper describes right-wing religion as “fascism, idolatry and sin” .I wonder if Twitter would ban him, too.. I’m sure you are not comparing my own adjectives with those of your President whose words led to five deaths prior to his Twitter ban. I would also aver that TEC has always had a disproportionate influence, despite its size, due to its members being fine, reasonable people – not hate-filled fanatics

Pat O'Neill
Pat O'Neill
Reply to  ACI
6 months ago

You never miss a chance to point out that TEC is a small denomination, do you?

dr.primrose
dr.primrose
Reply to  ACI
6 months ago

The claim you have made about Senator-elect Warnock was part of the political propaganda of his now-defeated opponent, Kelly Loeffler. Her campaign material on this point was highly criticized for ignoring the fact that he was discussing the comments of another minister using that phrase a number of years ago. Here are some excerpts from the New York Times story on this subject. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/technology/loeffer-warnock-wright.html **** In a news release distributed on Friday, Ms. Loeffler’s campaign linked to a 2014 flyer showing that Mr. Warnock’s church, Ebenezer Baptist in Atlanta, had hosted Mr. Wright, a controversial Chicago pastor known for his… Read more »

Simon Dawson
Simon Dawson
6 months ago

The Grove booklet on the Donewiths looks to be an interesting read. But I hope that the authors have asked not just what are people walking away from, but what are they walking towards? What is their new life after the death of the old? That is the important question.

Michael
Michael
Reply to  Simon Dawson
6 months ago

and not just why people are walking away, but what would entice them back. I will walk away at Easter if churches in my neighbourhood are still refusing to allow in a few worshippers into a large space. I began to attend Sunday worship at the ago of six, 50 years ago and have hardly missed a Sunday. I have no idea what I will be doing on Sundays if I walk away. I hope my prayer life will remain intact. Being cut off from communion and collective worship will continue to be hard but it isn’t locally available so… Read more »

ACI
ACI
6 months ago

On reflection, time for a new New Year’s resolution. Tous mes vœux, Anglicans érudits — je file à l’anglaise. Happy 2021

Janet Fife
Janet Fife
Reply to  ACI
6 months ago

Translation, please!

Rod Gillis
Rod Gillis
Reply to  Janet Fife
6 months ago

As the good Doc Seitz is signaling he has left the building, I’ll take the liberty. The ex-pat American academic en France is saying, ” Best wishes thinking Anglicans, I’m outa here”. The last bit, something of a pretentious idiom, has a kind of William F. Buckley dramatic flare about it.

Stanley Monkhouse
Reply to  Rod Gillis
6 months ago

Pity. I liked his contributions immensely. Good to have robust and rational challenges to the soft left of much of TA.

Froghole
Froghole
Reply to  Stanley Monkhouse
6 months ago

I agree, Prof. Monkhouse! ACI is obviously a very intelligent man (I understand that he is a serious OT scholar); he has always been very generous and personable to me – as has Archdeacon Gillis, of course. I appreciate that he has views which are not commonplace on this site, but I think that this site, like any forum, profits from a diversity of opinion. It is perhaps through encountering and confronting a range of views that we are more likely to challenge our own assumptions which – as I know only too well with respect to mine – may… Read more »

Tim Chesterton
Reply to  Froghole
6 months ago

I understand that he is a serious OT scholar’

Indeed. He’s written on Isaiah, the Old Testament canon, Colossians, Prophecy and Hermeneutics, among many other books.

Andrew Godsall
Andrew Godsall
Reply to  Stanley Monkhouse
6 months ago

Indeed Rod. Christopher made the same resolution last year but was back quite soon……watch this space. Meanwhile, a happy new year.

Janet Fife
Janet Fife
Reply to  Rod Gillis
6 months ago

Thank you Rod.

FrDavid H
FrDavid H
Reply to  Janet Fife
6 months ago

It is regrettable ACI has thrown in the towel and walked away. One senses it can’t be easy for him to be a member of the world’s most liberal Anglican church whilst holding the views he has. And often one felt that, on Thinking Anglicans , he was in a minority of one. (Perhaps two with Pete Broadbent). This site will be the poorer without his valuable comments.

Tony Phelan
Tony Phelan
6 months ago

Apparently Donewiths prefer looser association in the Northumbria Community, the Wild Goose and others. If the Wild Goose is meant to be the Iona Community, one can’t have much confidence in the research behind the Grove booklet cited in the CT.

Janet Fife
Janet Fife
6 months ago

I’m interested in Jonathan Draper’s article partly from a personal point of view, since we share a similar background. In fact, he and I were both at an evangelical liberal arts college in Massachusetts for the 1971-72 academic year. Jonathan’s younger sister Chris was a particular friend of mine. The college was conservative: dancing was forbidden, apart from the ballet dancer who was allowed to perform in a Christmas variety programme. But one of my abiding memories of the place is the night when male students carried out a ‘panty raid’ on one of the houses for female students. The… Read more »

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