Some people think there is now a 10% chance of AI wiping out humanity. Would that be a morally just outcome given the widespread abuse and decadence on earth and the human threat to creation. If AI is capable of such a thing without feeling anger, isn’t God also?
BTW, some of you may have read about ‘solutions to the navier-Stokes problem’. As soon as one talks about AI, one is talking about huge businesses which are competing with each other. So what you read in the press may not be the truth nor the whole truth.
I always thought the promise only applied to floods, and only one family surviving. Everyone gone because of a meteor hitting us, or AI detonating 15 H bombs at once is not included.
God does not desire our elimination but our consecration and flourishing. Humanity is perfectly capable of eliminating itself. We basically need saving from ourselves (I do for sure), through God’s grace, mercy, healing and love. I believe that’s God’s desire, and always has been. I only believe in ‘end times’ in the sense of our own ‘end times’ – by which I mean the fleeting brief lives we have and our transience. In which context, as gift, God calls us repeatedly to open each day, in the here and now, to God’s grace and devotion to us, and asks us… Read more »
Thank you for your long, thoughtful response, hidden sister. IU think the Hebrew and Christian idea of sacrifice and the notion that God requires us to sacrifice is a huge part of the problem we face, not part of the answer – see Adrian Thatcher and many, many other Christian and humanitarian writers. I don’t need saving from myself. I need help to discover myself. I believe every human being is endowed with the essence of the divine, and my task has partly been to peel back the unhealthy, abusive overlays of the fake God to reveal the essence of… Read more »
And one person is now saying the human race could be wiped out in ten years. AI isn’t capable oof feelings, is it? It is very capable of replicating the whole spectrum of human feelings, and that’s what mostly inspired my blog. Is God capable of feeling things? This is to anthropomorphise God, which is of course what the Christian Church is doing all the time. This is also what Adrian Thatcher is addressing in his book.
Eddie Howson
20 days ago
This is a timely summary of the challenges we face, Colin.
I have listened to Iain McGilchrist speaking on the topic via YouTube and most recently as Chancellor of Ralston College. He is giving his intellect, experience and remaining energies to communicate the existential dangers to humankind and our world that have been unleashed.
He also refers to the ‘Enlightenment’ being the turning point: refer to The Master and His Emissary.
That we have ‘helpful’ websites for church leaders such us is a great concern: https://aichristian.org/
Eddie, thank you for your comment and for the link to the AI Christian Partnership, something I haven’t come across until now. I need to familiarise myself with what Ian Gilchrist is saying as well!
Did you like or dislike what is being suggested on the aichristian.org website? to me it seemed to ask some relevant questions and bring transparency – such as whether ai should be uised in sermons and prayers. I suggest the website itself may have benefitted from ai !
Nigel, your question to Eddie Howson sent me to the aichristian.org website to check for myself. It’s clearly a helpful resource but it confirmed what most worries me – that many Christians, myself included, are inadequately educated and briefed to identify what is and isn’t trustworthy in what the website names “formative traditional Christian practices” such as scripture, prayer, wise counsel, attentiveness to the Spirit and dependence on God. P6 lists the potential costs of using AI including factual errors, bias, echo chambers, loss of critical thinking skills and addiction. P7 references specifically Christian medium term costs that can be… Read more »
Edie – thank you for introducing me to Ian McGilchrist, not someone I’d come across before. Now I have hours of YouTube viewing to catch up with.
This highlights part of the problem for me. How am I, or we, aware of the very diverse range of people who are publishing and posting ideas that are of great value to the spiritual and cosmic and practical challenges facing us as individuals and the Christian Church as a 2,000 year old institution with an incapacity to think and imagine laterally and provocatively.
Nigel Goodwin
20 days ago
I must read again when I have time, but Colin finishes on a rather sobering thought. The term AI covers many many different areas. Some say AI is not even AI (it just reproduces, and has no intelligence). Others seem to define AI to mean almost anything having to do with computers, so under that definition I have been doing AI (modelling, or the modern term digital twins) since 1975. The term also covers many different aspects. I think one strand, which Colin is referring to, related to the use of LLMs (large language models). Myself, I will not communicate… Read more »
Nigel, thank you for raising a number of threads for me to follow! I’m not sure that it is possible NOT to use AI. I think it’s everywhere, and that’s the problem. It’s like sin! Am I or am I not infected with sin and/or AI. Is my PC or phone or Laptop infected? What effect is the infection of AI and unhealthy Biblical teaching and theology having on me? I think the effect of unhealthy, abusive Biblical teaching and theology is almost impossible for the majority to identify in the Church – though the majority also think it’s easy.
we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
i am by no means a fully paid up evangelical, nor indeed Anglican, but Christ crucified is indeed a stumbling block to many if not most. Is it possible to make it healthy? Is it always abusive?
Nigel – I believe Jesus was crucified. I believe in the power of the event and the existential drama it presents me with. Preaching Christ crucified is not, for me, the same as preaching the theological model of sacrificial atonement, a sacrifice necessary to reconcile our sinful selves to God. This is what I find abusive and unhealthy, in company with Adrian Thatcher.
i understand, but sometimes this nuance does not come through in what you write. Mea culpa for not understanding the nuance! I read too quickly. I am probably in the same place as yourself. Existential drama is a good description.
Nigel – yes, Christ crucified is a stumbling block to many. I think the reasons why Christ crucified is a stumbling block are also many. One reason it’s been a stumbling block for me is the presence of crucifixes, very prominent in many churches, of an almost naked male figure. I just took them from granted, perfectly normal religious image to have in a church. But the church was and is offering at the same time a homoerotic image. At the same time as offering a homoerotic image the Church downplays any idea that there might be a homoerotic presence… Read more »
Colin, The points you make about AI and spirituality are grounded in deep wisdom. I am no expert but consider AI development and the possibility of AGI Advanced General Intellugence is next to global warming and the rise of Right Wing Nationalism one of the most potent apocalyptic threats to humanity. But on the other side I think the 5 year window for the rise of AGI and a possible threat to humanities existence is I hope not going to happen. AI heralds a new Industrial Revolution that is incredibly concerning and the lack of UN and Government oversight of… Read more »
FrDavid H
20 days ago
It’s a pity we have to subscribe to the Telegraph to read the first article
I agree, especially as Fergus B-G writes so well, and wittily. His piece on the back page of the latest Church Times is a good example, and his book about churches around the world is very readable.
Of course, some of us irredeemable misguided liberal types try to avoid clicking on links to the Telegraph, Mail, Express etc (and thereby contributing to their business model) regardless of whether it’s free or not. [Insert smiley face emoji]
I too am unwilling to give my data to the Daily Telegraph but I am intrigued by the title of Mr Butler-Gallie’s article. Does he associate priesthood with being on the rack or with having water dripped on his forehead? One can only wonder!
It may be that he associates being a vicar with being waterboarded in Guantanimo Bay. I can identify with this image. It’s a shame that only Tory readers of the right wing press will be aware of this inside information.
Last edited 18 days ago by FrDavid H
Miss CR
19 days ago
Colin Coward says in the article that some people think we have been in a state of moral decline and materialism since the 1980’s…I have always thought it started much earlier than that, probably with the two World Wars. I definitely see a link between the decline in interest in Christianity and the Church of England and the problem. The comment about maybe the world will only make it ten more years was intriguing in the light of my long term concern over the whole thing, because if that were the case, wow, the CofE will make it to the… Read more »
Some people think there is now a 10% chance of AI wiping out humanity. Would that be a morally just outcome given the widespread abuse and decadence on earth and the human threat to creation. If AI is capable of such a thing without feeling anger, isn’t God also?
BTW, some of you may have read about ‘solutions to the navier-Stokes problem’. As soon as one talks about AI, one is talking about huge businesses which are competing with each other. So what you read in the press may not be the truth nor the whole truth.
https://cims.nyu.edu/~tristanb/statement.pdf
Didn’t He say He wouldn’t after the flood, and give us the rainbow 🌈 to prove it?
I don’t believe God ever said anything. If he did, it was and is mediated by human beings.
I always thought the promise only applied to floods, and only one family surviving. Everyone gone because of a meteor hitting us, or AI detonating 15 H bombs at once is not included.
God does not desire our elimination but our consecration and flourishing. Humanity is perfectly capable of eliminating itself. We basically need saving from ourselves (I do for sure), through God’s grace, mercy, healing and love. I believe that’s God’s desire, and always has been. I only believe in ‘end times’ in the sense of our own ‘end times’ – by which I mean the fleeting brief lives we have and our transience. In which context, as gift, God calls us repeatedly to open each day, in the here and now, to God’s grace and devotion to us, and asks us… Read more »
Thank you for your long, thoughtful response, hidden sister. IU think the Hebrew and Christian idea of sacrifice and the notion that God requires us to sacrifice is a huge part of the problem we face, not part of the answer – see Adrian Thatcher and many, many other Christian and humanitarian writers. I don’t need saving from myself. I need help to discover myself. I believe every human being is endowed with the essence of the divine, and my task has partly been to peel back the unhealthy, abusive overlays of the fake God to reveal the essence of… Read more »
Thank you, hidden sister, for your clear-eyed call to trust in God’s love.
hidden sister, may I quote this piece in our CofI parish magazine?
Of course, Jocelyn, and may God bless you all.
And one person is now saying the human race could be wiped out in ten years. AI isn’t capable oof feelings, is it? It is very capable of replicating the whole spectrum of human feelings, and that’s what mostly inspired my blog. Is God capable of feeling things? This is to anthropomorphise God, which is of course what the Christian Church is doing all the time. This is also what Adrian Thatcher is addressing in his book.
This is a timely summary of the challenges we face, Colin.
I have listened to Iain McGilchrist speaking on the topic via YouTube and most recently as Chancellor of Ralston College. He is giving his intellect, experience and remaining energies to communicate the existential dangers to humankind and our world that have been unleashed.
He also refers to the ‘Enlightenment’ being the turning point: refer to The Master and His Emissary.
That we have ‘helpful’ websites for church leaders such us is a great concern:
https://aichristian.org/
Eddie, thank you for your comment and for the link to the AI Christian Partnership, something I haven’t come across until now. I need to familiarise myself with what Ian Gilchrist is saying as well!
Did you like or dislike what is being suggested on the aichristian.org website? to me it seemed to ask some relevant questions and bring transparency – such as whether ai should be uised in sermons and prayers. I suggest the website itself may have benefitted from ai !
Nigel, your question to Eddie Howson sent me to the aichristian.org website to check for myself. It’s clearly a helpful resource but it confirmed what most worries me – that many Christians, myself included, are inadequately educated and briefed to identify what is and isn’t trustworthy in what the website names “formative traditional Christian practices” such as scripture, prayer, wise counsel, attentiveness to the Spirit and dependence on God. P6 lists the potential costs of using AI including factual errors, bias, echo chambers, loss of critical thinking skills and addiction. P7 references specifically Christian medium term costs that can be… Read more »
Edie – thank you for introducing me to Ian McGilchrist, not someone I’d come across before. Now I have hours of YouTube viewing to catch up with.
This highlights part of the problem for me. How am I, or we, aware of the very diverse range of people who are publishing and posting ideas that are of great value to the spiritual and cosmic and practical challenges facing us as individuals and the Christian Church as a 2,000 year old institution with an incapacity to think and imagine laterally and provocatively.
I must read again when I have time, but Colin finishes on a rather sobering thought. The term AI covers many many different areas. Some say AI is not even AI (it just reproduces, and has no intelligence). Others seem to define AI to mean almost anything having to do with computers, so under that definition I have been doing AI (modelling, or the modern term digital twins) since 1975. The term also covers many different aspects. I think one strand, which Colin is referring to, related to the use of LLMs (large language models). Myself, I will not communicate… Read more »
Nigel, thank you for raising a number of threads for me to follow! I’m not sure that it is possible NOT to use AI. I think it’s everywhere, and that’s the problem. It’s like sin! Am I or am I not infected with sin and/or AI. Is my PC or phone or Laptop infected? What effect is the infection of AI and unhealthy Biblical teaching and theology having on me? I think the effect of unhealthy, abusive Biblical teaching and theology is almost impossible for the majority to identify in the Church – though the majority also think it’s easy.
we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
i am by no means a fully paid up evangelical, nor indeed Anglican, but Christ crucified is indeed a stumbling block to many if not most. Is it possible to make it healthy? Is it always abusive?
Nigel – I believe Jesus was crucified. I believe in the power of the event and the existential drama it presents me with. Preaching Christ crucified is not, for me, the same as preaching the theological model of sacrificial atonement, a sacrifice necessary to reconcile our sinful selves to God. This is what I find abusive and unhealthy, in company with Adrian Thatcher.
i understand, but sometimes this nuance does not come through in what you write. Mea culpa for not understanding the nuance! I read too quickly. I am probably in the same place as yourself. Existential drama is a good description.
Nigel – yes, Christ crucified is a stumbling block to many. I think the reasons why Christ crucified is a stumbling block are also many. One reason it’s been a stumbling block for me is the presence of crucifixes, very prominent in many churches, of an almost naked male figure. I just took them from granted, perfectly normal religious image to have in a church. But the church was and is offering at the same time a homoerotic image. At the same time as offering a homoerotic image the Church downplays any idea that there might be a homoerotic presence… Read more »
Colin, The points you make about AI and spirituality are grounded in deep wisdom. I am no expert but consider AI development and the possibility of AGI Advanced General Intellugence is next to global warming and the rise of Right Wing Nationalism one of the most potent apocalyptic threats to humanity. But on the other side I think the 5 year window for the rise of AGI and a possible threat to humanities existence is I hope not going to happen. AI heralds a new Industrial Revolution that is incredibly concerning and the lack of UN and Government oversight of… Read more »
It’s a pity we have to subscribe to the Telegraph to read the first article
I agree, especially as Fergus B-G writes so well, and wittily. His piece on the back page of the latest Church Times is a good example, and his book about churches around the world is very readable.
It let me read it for free.
I don’t have a subscription. But I can read it for free in one browser (Chrome) but not in two others (Safari and Opera).
Of course, some of us irredeemable misguided liberal types try to avoid clicking on links to the Telegraph, Mail, Express etc (and thereby contributing to their business model) regardless of whether it’s free or not. [Insert smiley face emoji]
I too am unwilling to give my data to the Daily Telegraph but I am intrigued by the title of Mr Butler-Gallie’s article. Does he associate priesthood with being on the rack or with having water dripped on his forehead? One can only wonder!
It may be that he associates being a vicar with being waterboarded in Guantanimo Bay. I can identify with this image. It’s a shame that only Tory readers of the right wing press will be aware of this inside information.
Colin Coward says in the article that some people think we have been in a state of moral decline and materialism since the 1980’s…I have always thought it started much earlier than that, probably with the two World Wars. I definitely see a link between the decline in interest in Christianity and the Church of England and the problem. The comment about maybe the world will only make it ten more years was intriguing in the light of my long term concern over the whole thing, because if that were the case, wow, the CofE will make it to the… Read more »