Thinking Anglicans

General Synod Questions about ACNA and South Carolina

Two questions were asked at General Synod on Monday which were answered by the Bishop of Guildford. The full list of all Questions is available here (PDF).

53. Miss Prudence Dailey (Oxford) to ask the Chairman of the Council for Christian Unity:

Q. Has consideration been given to whether the Church of England is in full and unimpaired communion with Bishop Mark Lawrence and the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina?

54. Mrs Lorna Ashworth (Chichester) to ask the Chairman of the Council for Christian Unity:

Q. Following the recent issue of a Certificate of Abandonment of the Episcopal Church in relation to the Rt Revd Mark J Lawrence, Bishop of South Carolina, and recognising that Bishop Lawrence has been one of the declining number of theologically conservative bishops who has sought to remain and to keep his people within TEC, in the light of paragraph 6 in the statement offered to the Synod in GS Misc 2011 by the Archbishops, are there any plans to consider proposing to the Synod fuller recognition of the Anglican Church in North America than has been considered to be appropriate up to this point.

The Bishop of Guildford’s answer (transcribed from audio recording available here)

With your permission sir, I will answer this and Mrs Ashworth’s question together.

The withdrawal from The Episcopal Church of most of the clergy and people of several dioceses, led by their bishops, after diocesan convention decisions, is a development novel in kind as well as in scale. Our North American sisters and brothers have been often involved in a litigious and sometimes acrimonious debate. We should try to remain on good terms with all parties and avoid inflaming matters further. Our response should be deliberate, and not hasty.

As the Archbishops noted in GS Misc 1011, the creation of the Anglican Church in North America raises questions of recognition of orders – ministry – as well as a relationship of communion. The former question is in some respects simpler, because the considerations are more objective, and it is also the more pressing, by reason of requests for transfer. Nevertheless there are some matters that require clarification before any decisions can be taken.

Clergy ordained in several churches with which we are not, or not yet, in communion are seeking permission to minister in the Church of England. The Council for Christian Unity has therefore established a small group to offer advice to the Archbishops through the Faith and Order Commission on the relevant issues. The question about the Anglican Church in North America’s orders (whether it is a church and whether its orders are such, whether they such that we can recognize) will be addressed in that context. This will necessarily involve direct ‘engagement with the Anglican Church in North America’ which was envisaged in the Archbishops General Synod miscellaneous paper that I have referred to, GS Misc 1011, and that will be the context for subsequent exploration of relationships between our churches.

On Saturday, a Special Diocesan Convention endorsed the South Carolina withdrawal from The Episcopal Church. The Bishop has stated that their position would be to remain within the Anglican Communion as an extra-provincial Diocese. The Episcopal Church on the other hand maintains that General Convention consent is necessary for any withdrawal. So the legal and indeed theological and ecclesiological position is extremely complicated. And it is absolutely not certain.

It has therefore not been possible to consider the consequences for our relationships at this immediate stage. And, in my view, any statement just at this point would be premature.

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Concerned Anglican
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Concerned Anglican

The Church of England needs to tread very carefully indeed regarding its relationship with the breakaway Anglican Church in North America. Any recognition of a collective body of this nature will set unworkable precedents for all sorts of schismatic groups. The ANCA in its war with the Episcopal Church is desperate to see itself as ‘the’ Anglican body in the United States and seriously covets recognition by the parent C of E. As a move towards this the ANCA has successfully hijacked Provinces such as Nigeria and Uganda, which despite their frequent condemnatory comments remain in communion with Canterbury. However,… Read more »

Father Ron Smith
Guest

“are there any plans to consider proposing to the Synod fuller recognition of the Anglican Church in North America than has been considered to be appropriate up to this point.” – Lorna Ashworth –

If there were such a plan, would this not be a sign to other dissidents in Communion Churches that intentional schismatic action brings rewards from Head Office? I’m sure TEC would be quite offended if ACNA and other faux-Anglican Churches in North America were given ‘status’ within the Communion as ‘fellow Anglicans’. That certainly would create problems for those loyal to the see of Canterbury.

Jeremy Bonner
Guest

I can’t help feeling that Sir Humphrey Appleby would have considered this a perfect example of how to avoid answering the question. I wonder if the Bishop of Guildford is considering a career in the Civil Service.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

If the Church of England recognizes ACNA as a member of the Anglican Communion, then TEC should set up some churches in England.

TEC already has churches in France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, and Belgium. Why not add England to the list?

Jeremy Bonner
Guest

Jeremy,

What need of that? I suspect that before too long there will be alignments between certain CoE dioceses/parishes and ACNA and between other CoE dioceses/parishes and TEC. I rather doubt that TEC wants to spend money on English misssions when it’s having a hard enough time funding domestic ones.

Tobias Haller
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Tobias Haller

Please note that this is largely about whether or not to recognize and license non-TEC (or former TEC) clergy for ministry within the Church of England. Membership in the Anglican Communion, as such, is much more complicated as the “Communion” has no Constitution. The governing documents of the ACC do provide a mechanism for membership therein; and the Canons of the C of E provide for a mechanism by which churches are determined to be “in communion” with the Church of England. As I understand it, at present ACNA is neither a member of the ACC, nor officially “in communion”… Read more »

Sara MacVane
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Sara MacVane

And what about the Reformed Anglican Church in UK …. why not recognise them, too? We all have our splinter groups after all, bring one into the AC, then you should bring them all in. Asking for trouble …

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

Jeremy Bonner asks, “What need of that?”

One might as well ask, what need of CofE links to ACNA?

But to answer your question, depending in part on the women-bishops vote today, TEC members in England (and perhaps CofE liberals) might want a church with a covenant that asks the baptized to respect the dignity of every human being.

Bill Dilworth
Guest
Bill Dilworth

Tobias, then is the old definition of Anglicans being those in communion with the See of Canterbury something of an urban legend? Canterbury seems to have little to do with determine membership.

cseitz
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cseitz

Having been licensed in the Church of England, this sentence is dubious

“… is more likely based on pedigree and courtesy, in this period of uncertainty, than current official ecclesiastical position.”

I also doubt that the debate is confined to licensing procedures only. The Episcopal Diocese of SC is not “ACNA” and so its status is a matter for clarification so far as the CofE is concerned; hence the questions. Is it, e.g., “extra-provincial” as it claims, so far as the CofE is concerned, etc?

Daibhead
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Daibhead

Interesting the leap from talking about South Carolina to talking about relationship with ACNA since the group in SC that is leaving TEC has not to date expressed any intent to join forces with the ACNA. The departing group has stated that it will be some sort of extra-provincial diocese in the Anglican Communion, but the soonest the ACC could consider such a request is at its next meeting in 2015 (someone correct me on the year if I am wrong). So unless another province picks them up, as in the case of Ft Worth and San Joaquin, the group… Read more »

cseitz
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cseitz

I received this email today. It is from a “TEC loyalist” responding to the ACI essay. “I wrote a response to your query about whether TEC loyalists in South Carolina would welcome an arrangement with Bishop Waldo: I think yes. We’ve only got 12 parishes, and maybe another half–dozen missions, and the “missions” are scattered in small towns where the only Episcopal church in the area has thrown in with Bishop Lawrence. I expect TEC to make an attempt to hold as much property as possible (a strategy I personally oppose), but even if some real estate is saved I… Read more »

Perry Butler
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Perry Butler

Presumably people from abroad are allowed in under the Overseas Clergy Act. Until the time of Abp Coggan I believe clergy of the Church of England in South Africa were excluded, then there was a change. In a case I dealt with when I was a DDO the man in question, appointed as a curate in an evangelical parish was eventually given a PTO but not a licence. Perhaps an ecclesiastical lawyer might give us his/her wisdom?

LES
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LES

As a athiest it could not bother me either way whether women were allowed to be bishops. What does strike me as strange however is how this huge monolithic organisation, which is “established” within the government of this country, is allowed to continue in this role after exhibiting such old fashioned and sexist views.

Clearly those who quote the bible as part of their objection to women bishops presumably and logically must also be in favour of slavery, and homophobia.

dr.primrose
Guest
dr.primrose

The Reformed Episcopal Church is a significant part of the ACNA. The Reformed Episcopal Church has long been closely associated with the Free Church of England — it’s full name is “The Free Church of England, otherwise called the Reformed Episcopal Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.” Would the Church of England’s “full and unimpaired communion” with ACNA automatically result in “full and unimpaired communion” with the Free Church of England? If not, why not?

Father Ron Smith
Guest

Here is ACI’s answer to the dilemma with the schismatic withdrawal of Bishop Lawrence and his Standing Committee in South Carolina: ” Litigation could be avoided, those dissenting in the diocese could receive immediate pastoral care from the Diocese of Upper South Carolina, the current status quo in South Carolina would be recognized and contained, and hope for eventual reconciliation not completely abandoned. “ACI’s affiliate, The Cranmer Institute, would be willing to fund and host discussions to explore this concept at its facility on the campus of Southern Methodist University in Dallas. We suggest that the talks be convened by… Read more »

Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer
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Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer

Re your observations on ACI, FR Ron – also re Christopher Seitz’s post above – are you familiar with the expression “Boll weevil” used in the last century to describe a group of Southern Democrat politicians? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boll_weevil_%28politics%29

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

Perhaps with the retirement of Dr. Williams this newfangled IASCUFO can make a graceful exit as well.

I mean really. An international commission on unity, faith, and order? What could be less Anglican?

cseitz
Guest
cseitz

Calling for reconciliation in accordance with Communion thinking agreed to by all — yes, how schismatic.

What a sad presentation of the Gospel and of what is supposed to be the common life of Christians.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

“Reconciliation in accordance with Communion thinking agreed to by all.”

That’s not reconciliation. That all provinces toeing the same doctrinal line.

Fortunately it will never happen.

If you want a single worldwide unity, faith and order, the Roman Church can attempt to provide.

On this side of the Tiber, unity does not require uniformity.

Bernard
Guest
Bernard

Jeremy. It is the Roman Catholic Church that does not require Uniformity. It has United, shared faith, and multiple Orders – or Rites as they are called. We Roman Catholics cannot understand why there is so much resistance to allowing Anglo Catholics and Conservative Evangelicals what would in effect be their own Rite, we have about 16 Rites around the world. Several of which function in England. We have no trouble with the Ordinariate. We have no trouble with the Polish Mission which conducts services in Polish in 200 Catholic Parishes around England (5 Percent of total) around the same… Read more »

Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer
Guest
Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer

The RC church does not permit its members and congregations to play mix and match when it comes to the provinces, clergy or bishops they recognize or anathematize, Bernard.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“…there is the same issue of other Priests not being able to officiate in the Polish Mission – in this case because they don’t know the language.”

There’s one heck of a big difference between not being able to perform a rite because you don’t know the language–I can always learn Polish–and not being able to perform a rite because you don’t have the correct gender–nothing is going to give that woman priest a pair of testicles in place of her ovaries.

Bernard
Guest
Bernard

To Roger Mortimer. Where there are multiple Juristictions in one area Roman Catholics can in effect choose which Bishop to be under by which of the Juruisdictions churches they choose to attend. The question has been asked about the Ordinariate. Could a non-Ordinariate Catholic become a Priest in it? The answer is Yes, they would have to attend an Ordinariate group for several years first, but it is possible. I have also been to several Masses by a Syro-Malabar Rite Priest from South India, he operates with the agreement of English Catholic Bishops, but he remains under the Authority of… Read more »

Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer
Guest
Lapinbizarre/Roger Mortimer

I did not say “which of the Juruisdictions [sic] churches they choose to attend”, Bernard, I said which “they recognize or anathematize”. This is a whole different matter and it is what the SC business is about.