Thinking Anglicans

Akinola's US visit: Sunday

Neela Banerjee New York Times U.S. Bishop, Making It Official, Throws in Lot With African Churchman

…The hope among leaders of the new diocese, the Convocation of Anglicans in North America, is that it will eventually be recognized by the communion as its rightful representative in the United States, replacing an Episcopal Church they say has strayed from traditional Anglican teachings.

“I see it as a building block for that,” Bishops Minns said in a news conference preceding his installation ceremony. He said the convocation would work with other groups of disaffected congregations to create a successor to the Episcopal Church…

Michelle Boorstein Washington Post Conservative N.Va. Priest Installed as Anglican Bishop

…Even some conservatives who theologically agree with Minns still disapprove of the way his group was created — without seeking consensus among U.S. conservatives or other Anglican leaders.
“This isn’t the right way, setting this up and then claiming it. It’s unilateralist. It creates distrust,” said the Rev. Ephraim Radner, a senior fellow at the conservative Anglican Communion Institute in Colorado.
Akinola initially said he created the group to serve Nigerians in the United States who were turned off by the U.S. church, but the group quickly shifted last year toward serving all conservatives and possibly being in position to became another branch of the communion — if communion leaders approve such a dramatic change.
And still, the number of U.S. congregations that have left for other branches is only a few dozen, according to the Episcopal Church. There are more than 7,400 Episcopal congregations.
Today, Minns said, one-third of his 34 congregations are ethnically Nigerian. One-third are in Virginia, the rest elsewhere in the United States.
Radner said he sees other conservative groups declining and hears “well-founded rumors” that several U.S. bishops are looking hard at joining Minns.
Among those present for yesterday’s ceremony was Pittsburgh Bishop Robert Duncan, who leads a group of U.S. parishes that remain in the Episcopal Church but are critical of it…

Associated Press Nigerian Anglican Installs U.S. Bishop

Julia Duin Washington Times Fairfax rector designated head of Anglican offshoot

…The congregation then gave a standing ovation to Archbishop Akinola for establishing CANA as the American offshoot of his 18.5 million-member Anglican Church of Nigeria, the largest province within the 77 million-member Anglican Communion.
No mention was made during the service of a private letter Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams sent to the Nigerian archbishop asking him not to preside at a ceremony that elicited heated protests last week from the U.S. Episcopal Church. By the time the letter was sent, Archbishop Akinola already had arrived in the United States.
Clad in brilliant white, red and gold vestments, the archbishop has built an international reputation for his outspokenness and opposition to homosexuality. He kept a low profile all weekend, first failing to show at a scheduled appearance Friday at Church of the Apostles, another CANA congregation in Fairfax.
He also did not appear at a press conference yesterday and did not preach, celebrate Communion or deliver the kind of informal remarks typically given by visiting prelates during an installation…

Nick Mackenzie Religious Intelligence Archbishop rejects call to stay away

Lillian Kafka Richmond Times-Dispatch Bishop installed to lead breakaway Episcopalians

86
Leave a Reply

avatar
3000
86 Comment threads
0 Thread replies
0 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
30 Comment authors
choirboyfromhellMynsterpreost (=David Rowett)LapinbizarrecryptogramGöran Koch-Swahne Recent comment authors
  Subscribe  
newest oldest
Notify of
Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

The following observations on T19 may interest: http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=19196 (#60) “It is a waste of time trying to debate with people on ‘THINKING ANGLICANS’ (what a smug name!) because the Webmeister, Simon Sarmiento, exercises very tight control on it, effectively censoring most dissent from the liberal POV. Which is his prerogative. You can post a comment, wait a day to be ‘approved’, and find it’s been rejected. In other words, it doesn’t really function like a blog, but like an old style politically aligned newspaper, with strict editorial control promting a party line. Very British, really. “What a contrast with T19,… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

” Marie Pinney …grew up Baptist and worships at Truro. “I feel so much more in line with Archbishop Akinola. There are hardly any bishops in the Episcopal Church that I’d even want my children in Sunday school with.”

Perhaps she’d have been more at home had she stuck with Baptist worship rather than getting involved in a hostile buy-out of Anglicanism. And tho’ her child may chime in well with ++Abuja now, I hope s/he doesn’t grow up gay….

Fr Joseph O'Leary
Guest

T19 make it a practice to quarantine liberal postings, and to erase them. Hence the uninstructive monotony of its comboxes.

JCF
Guest
JCF

Exsqueeze me, Lapin, but why are we supposed to care about “Comment #60” on T19? Some blogs have delayed (moderated) posting, some don’t: this one does. Big Whoop.

[I suppose if I’m one of the “same eight names (that) recur endlessly”, anything I say will be instantly discounted thereby anyway! (not to mention that I am of the “disproportionate number of gays and lesbians” *LOL*) Oh well…]

*****

Just another day in the life of Big Pete: ignore ABC, slink in, commit schism, slink out…

Steve L
Guest
Steve L

Where have all the CANAites gone? On 12/21/2006, Virtue on Line reported that the 11 Virginia parishes that had joined CANA boasted 9,900 members and an average Sunday attendance of just over 5,700. As of yesterday, the Washington Times – which tends to accept CANA claims at face value – reported that CANA has 34 parishes – a third of them ethnically Nigerian – but only 7,000 members, with an average Sunday attendance of about 6,000 (“larger than that of 50 Episcopal dioceses”). And one of the new parishes – Grace and St. Stephen’s – claimed 2,000 members all by… Read more »

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

The Sunday Richmond Times Dispatch, a pretty conservative and generally accurate paper, reported this morning that there were about 1000 present yesterday [as did the Washington Times], but added that about 1/3 of them appeared to be Nigerians.

Of those who were reported to have abandoned TEC [but not its property] in N Va, that seems like a rather sparse turnout.

Brian
Guest
Brian

Heavens, these comments are censored? Considering what DOES get through from the “other side” I shudder to think what you’re NOT approving. Maybe their comments tend to be more than 400 words, yes that must be it. I thought one could do whatever one liked with one’s own blog. I didn’t realize there were sacred Laws of Bloggery in place. I also thought that the comments are fairly secondary, the real meat of this blog are the links to news & opinion items which do not always reflect “the liberal POV” by any means. Keep up the good work. Disproportionately… Read more »

Cheryl Clough
Guest

lapinbizzare Thanks for sharing that feedback, I found it interesting. Personally, I have found TA to be very fair. Simon consistently applies the 400-word limit. There were a number of times after the limit was introduced that I presumed my postings were within the limit, only to find them in my return email with a note that they were over the limit. But then I do give Simon a return email address to send them. The nice thing is that I can then decide whether the posting is still relevant and if so, prune it. My only regret is that… Read more »

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

I have always had good experiences blogging on TA, except one time when I exceeded the 400-word limit. On T 1:9 I have been in rouble with the elves any time I locked horns with Sarah hey, hey — infallible as she is. Recently, she stated on T 1:9 that she is ready to leave TEC or any Anglican entity unless they act FAST to disassociate themselves with GC 2003 and 2006. “Her way or the highway!”

JPM
Guest
JPM

mynsterpreost, the quote from Mme. Pinney sums up the whole thing very nicely, doesn’t it? More than any other cause, even more than foreign prelates with an eye for good real estate, our troubles in the U.S. have been caused by converts from low church Protestant sects who seek, the moment they are in the door, to remake their new church in the image of their old one. I have seen it over and over. Does anyone else remember the Washington Post article that revealed that more than 60% of the attendees at Truro and Falls Church were not even… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

A response received to an inquiry at another site indicates that the C of E clergyman attending the Virginia installation was Dave Banting, presumably David Banting, chairman of Reform.

Chris
Guest
Chris

mynsterpost and JPM,

I’m confused by your reactions to Marie Pinney. Most Christians rejoice at drawing people into their churches and perhaps touching their lives for Christ in new ways. Who cares where they come from? If people want to engage in our faith community, God bless them. And get used to “converts from low church Protestant sects.” Those churches are losing many, many people to charismatic churches and high-church denominations. There will be many more Marie Pinney’s to come.

These attitudes sound far from what the sign out front claims our churches are about.

Jimmy
Guest
Jimmy

JPM: I agree with you basically, but I must say that I left the Baptist church in which I was reared when I was 21 many years ago and became an Episcopalian. I fell in love with the Episcopal Church and gladly accepted all of it. Now, I too see people from other traditions coming into the Episcopal Church and trying to change it to suit them. What I rejected so many years ago, is, in many places, common practice in the Episcopal Church. Sad.

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

” … the real meat of this blog are the links to news & opinion items which do not always reflect “the liberal POV” by any means. Keep up the good work.”

YES! I have commended this site to many others for exactly that reason – the posting of full texts of letters, communiques, documements, news stories, opinion columns, blogs – and the general civility of comment – although I have sometimes not censored my own sarcasm.

Curtis
Guest
Curtis

If you want to know about bigotted censorship and biased treatment try posting something on virtue online and see what kind of reaction you get. Frankly, I’m more than impressed by the quality of discourse at TA. I would have disapeared from Anglican circles a long time ago if I had nothing but t19 and vol to read.

And for that matter, someone needs to give a well deserved round of appause to Jim Naughton for uncovering the wing-nut connivances that they’ve pulled. Keep TA just like it is.

C.B.
Guest
C.B.

So Akinola kept a low profile all weekend. What? I guess he thought no one would notice he was there. -So as to not offend, no doubt. But at least the papers have put it out there in black and white that CANA is out to replace TEC and Akinola is at the helm. It is profoundly schismatic and in your face. Low profile or not, he will not be able to escape the consequences. I just hope the ABC has been made aware that the whole world now knows what Akinola is up to and he doesn’t mind showing… Read more »

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Can anyone understand why the Rowan Williams appears not to have sent his letter to Akinola before he left Nigeria? He must have known that Akinola was unlikely to cave in, but there could be no hope of any softening by the time he’d already reached the USA. A letter just for public effect?

Martin Reynolds
Guest

I note that Ephraim Radner is in trouble again.

Dr Radner may be a reasonable theologian, but his choice of bed-fellows continues to plague him.

The fulsome support the IRD has now offered for CANA stands in stark contrast to his own declared views. Will he now resign his membership of the IRD board?

Having lost the financial support of Grace Church through Donald Armstrong’s behaviour, it would seem inevitable he will now have to loose the potential support of the IRD through theirs.

I feel a Lady Bracknell quote on “carelessness” coming on ………

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Lapin:
as you predicted, T19 is unhappy with our discussion of the liminalities of the A/S heptarchy, though I cannot think why, given that so much space is given over to discussions about boundary-hopping:-) .

JPM
Guest
JPM

Chris, the problem is not converts–I am one myself–but, as I thought I said very clearly, converts “who seek, the moment they are in the door, to remake their new church in the image of their old one.”

Jimmy gets it. When I became an Episcopalian, twenty-two years ago, I also embraced my new church. I am a *former* fundamentalist who is *now* Episcopalian.

Mary Pinney, however, is *still* a Baptist.

ruidh
Guest
ruidh

“Can anyone understand why the Rowan Williams appears not to have sent his letter to Akinola before he left Nigeria?”

No one outside of Lambeth knows when the letter was sent. JKS’s letter was released publicly in a press release. We don’t know when William’s letter was sent, but sending it privately meant Akinola could deny having received it. In all likelihood, it was intercepted by someone on his staff so that he could say he had never seen it.

John N Wall
Guest
John N Wall

The pattern of groups breaking away from the Episcopal Church has been pretty consistent since the nineteenth century. All they seem to have in common — and as a source of institutional identity — is opposition to the Episcopal Church. Once they step outside that institutional structure, they have little on which to ground an identity and suddenly they discover all their internal differences. The result is fragmentation and marginality. We saw this after GC 1979 among groups opposed to the ordination of women and the ’79 BCP. We are seeing it again. Now we have AMiA and CANA and… Read more »

C.B.
Guest
C.B.

Erika – All this talk about whether or not Akinola got the ABC’s letter in time not to come is an attempt to shift the focus. It is absurd to think that the ABC merely popped a letter into snail mail “late last week” and left it at that thinking he’d get in time before his trip. I’m sure the contents of the letter were communicated to Akinola the day it was sent. The questions that have merit are where was Akinola last week, when did he leave Nigeria, and why was his coming publicized so late? The answers to… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

Ephraim Radner has not made an argument that the localist and confessionalist ae incompatible, only if a Church is only confessionalist in an absolute sense. A local Church has to be a confession of something, after all. His argument is all pro-communion, whereas this is contradicted elsewhere. The Roman Communion is a Church, and indeed any Orthodox Communion is indeed via autocephaly – autonomy by any other name and relationships from below in actual institutions. When there are ecumenical agreements of sharing resources and ministry, no one talks particularly of a Communion. The Communion in Anglican terms is a loose… Read more »

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

David. Some guy going by the name “Gordian” was going on about our T19 conversation earlier this morning and I responded sharply. His post was pulled, by him I suppose, almost as soon as I replied, which left my reply looking pointless. I was flagged, but seemed they were letting it stand. I asked them to remove it, however, since cause it makes no sense without the lead in of the Gordian Whine. Assume it’s gone now. That was one individual, not at T19 thing. Is it kosher to ask Simon if he would forward one’s email address to another?… Read more »

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

Isn’t it amazing how assertions of support for emperilled religious freedoms can lead some so easily astray? Such statements, for some, enable them to ignore that this organization is actually about curtailling any kind of religious freedom, especially as it manifests as dissent from the party line of the current US administration. People are able to ignore the sources of funding of this organization, as well as the offensive idea that an organization with ties to government should have any say in the “reorganization” of Churches, which “reorganization” seems to be based solely on the idea that the members of… Read more »

ruidh
Guest
ruidh

“I’m sure the contents of the letter were communicated to Akinola the day it was sent.”

There’s a reply from Akinola to Williams on T19 in which Akinola says he “didn’t see the letter until after the ceremony” which is consistant with my speculation that someone on his staff intercepted it so that he could plausibly deny having seen it. http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=19225

ruidh
Guest
ruidh

“I’m sure the contents of the letter were communicated to Akinola the day it was sent.”

There’s a reply from Akinola to Williams on T19 in which Akinola says he “didn’t see the letter until after the ceremony” which is consistant with my speculation that someone on his staff intercepted it so that he could plausibly deny having seen it. http://titusonenine.classicalanglican.net/?p=19225

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

OOOPS! That last comment was in response to Simon’s post about IRD and CANA.

BobinWashPA
Guest
BobinWashPA

“More than any other cause, even more than foreign prelates with an eye for good real estate, our troubles in the U.S. have been caused by converts from low church Protestant sects who seek, the moment they are in the door, to remake their new church in the image of their old one.” I certainly can vouch for this quote. As for Ms. Pinney’s statement, I wonder would she allow her children in the room with a down syndrome homosexual? or an autistic child, or a child with terrets (who just might swear over and over/part of the condition, uncontrollable… Read more »

Diane Hanson
Guest
Diane Hanson

Below is an article in the April 8 newsletter of my former church in Woodbridge (now a member of CANA). Obviously, some people were aware that Akinola was coming. In fact, this church was to hold an invitation only reception for him following the installation. Once I had read this on April 8, I wondered why it took so long for the news to show up on the blogs: “Worship at St. Margaret’s Creating opportunities to encounter the Living God Bishop Minn’s Installation On Saturday, May 5, the growing fellowship of churches in the Convocation of Anglicans in North America… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Lapin – if Simon feels it appropriate to pass on my email, that’s fine. I’d direct you to my parish website (stmarysbarton.org.uk), but the email for me there’s not working – tho’ you could email the webmaster and ask him to forward it.
regards,
D
who has spent a blissful day at the reopening of St Peter’s AS church….

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Chris; it is indeed the case that the trad. low/protestant denominations are having problems with membership retention, and that we do see people from such backgrounds entering Anglicanism. And we should welcome the gifts and insights which such Christians have to bring – however, there comes a point when this can destroy the very thing which attracted them into their new denomination, and all they end up with is a pale imitation of what they had left. If someone wants the Anglican Church only to espouse baptist/presbyterian ecclesiology or theology, why on earth have they joined in the first place?… Read more »

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Mynsterpreost “If someone wants the Anglican Church only to espouse baptist/presbyterian ecclesiology or theology, why on earth have they joined in the first place?” As an original Lutheran Protestant, I joined the Anglican church because it happened to be the main church in my village, and I do believe very strongly that church is first and foremost about community. It took me a long time to discover what was distinctly Anglican about it, what was just idiosyncratic of this particular village, and what was idiosyncratic of the particular priest. There were many things of my old church I valued and… Read more »

C.B.
Guest
C.B.

Diane Hanson – Was that Newsletter posted on a website or only sent to congregant’s homes either by email or snail mail. I suspect that many within CANA and ACN knew, but it was not publicized to the broader AC until a couple weeks ago. IT certainly was not on the Church of Nigeria website. Or the website of CANA before then.

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

mynsterpreost. The guy who went for us at T19 this morning is the author of the post that I quoted above – the first item on this page [“‘Thinking Anglicans’ (what a smug name)”]. He was probably already loaded for bear after my response on T19 to the “smug” post. Maybe took the term “site-specific groupie” personally, which it was not. Am going to try your web-page. “This correspondence is closed.”

David H.
Guest

WRT the T1:9 comments on Simon & TA:

“What a contrast with T19, where comments – including those from Simon Sarmiento and TA contributors – appear immediately.”

Oh come now. It’s common knowledge that T1:9 goes through comments from “liberals” from time to time and removes them.

“(Goran Koch-Swahne and ‘MerseyMike’, well known here) are not Anglican or even Christian.”

Hey, lookit that! the Rev. Koch-Swahne isn’t a Christian! Could of fooled me… 😉

“There is a disproportionate number of gays and lesbians among them.”

Gasp! Oh the humanity! (/me faints away in a melodramatic, Scarlett O’Hara fashion)

wyclif
Guest

“If someone wants the Anglican Church only to espouse baptist/presbyterian ecclesiology or theology, why on earth have they joined in the first place?”

Did I miss something? Where did ++Akinola or +Minns espouse anything other than Anglican theology (39 Articles & BCP)???

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

Mynsterpreost. I’m a bit slow and only just realized that your reference to “the reopening of St Peter’s AS church….” seems to indicate that the Saxon church at Barton-on-Humber (a church of major architectural importance,folks) is in regular use again? Some good news around here for a change.

Does your internet “handle” repeat the job description of a predecessor?

Chris
Guest
Chris

mynsterpreost, I don’t think your analysis holds w/ the CANA parishes. Yes, a majority of TFC parishioners are not confirmed, but it is a distinctly Anglican church. Rev Yates has been rector for over 26 years and during the 5 years I attended there was at least one CofE clergy on staff. Additionally, TFC has active relationships with Anglican churches around the world. I’m less familiar with Truro, but people I know who attend and insights we get from sources such as BabyBlue reveal an Anglican heritage as well. These are not Episcopal/Anglican Churches that have been diluted by new… Read more »

BobinWashPA
Guest
BobinWashPA

Wyclif

I believe that most of us liberals have expouse the same. We hold the Creeds, etc… to all be valid. When did we stop being Episcopalian?
Don’t answer that! Because many have decided to welcome Gay and Lesbian members into Christ’s community we’re not Anglicans?

I can’t partake of T19 or VOL (and Matt Kennedy’s Stand Firm). Most of the post are reaffirmations of negative thinking.

Ford Elms
Guest
Ford Elms

This may be by the way, but what did my Lord of Abuja actually DO in Virginia? Am I right in reading “installation”to mean “enthronement”? Now, I assume +Minns has no cathedral church as yet, hence the gathering being held in a “nondenominational” “worship centre”, but was there a cathedra? You see, for some who may not see my point, the enthronement of a bishop by his metropolitan is a symbolic act meaning that, the clergy and people of the diocese having discerned the will of the Spirit in the selection of their bishop, the wider Church concurs and symbolically… Read more »

mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Wyclif. The quote refers neither to ++Abuja nor to sort-of-+ Minns, but to an individual in CANA who appears to have joined TEC with no will to learn from TEC’s tradition, but rather expecting it to conform entirely to her (apparently) Baptist presuppositions. So far as I am aware the Baptists do not espouse the 39 articles or the BCP….

Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Alas, English Heritage have but improved its interpretative matrix for the building, etc etc. But it is still licensed for worship, and (subject to EH’s whims) is used a couple of times a year. Currently we’re waiting on the remains of 3000 Bartonians to return, dating from C9to C19 (a fragment of one of whose coffins graces my study – I hope they don’t want it back) – THEN we’re planning a full blown requiem mass on the site of the Saxon altar, candles, smoke, the lot (English Heritage willing). Probably 1549 with additions in Latin and the Language of… Read more »

Justin
Guest
Justin

What are the ramifications of having two apostolic successions for Anglicans in the United States? theologically and/or practically? thoughts…?

Lapinbizarre
Guest
Lapinbizarre

Justin. Depends who you’ve got in it. If you can pack your succession with Old Catholics and Swedish Lutherans (like the one, known to this page, rumoured the other day on T19 to be “atheist”) then one day, with luck, a Bishop of Rome may recognise your validity. I do not get the feel that the Sacrifice of the Mass (capitals called for, I suppose) or even the Real Presence play big in CANA circles. Besides, a variety of schismatic but more or less valid Anglican successions already exists in North America. CANA adds one more ingredient to this stew.… Read more »

Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Chris, I don’t quite follow you. Are you saying that these folks have enlisted with the Anglican expression of Christianity and accepted its breadth of theology and worship? If they have done this, their wish to abandon the broad Anglicanism of TEC seems at odds with it. Therefore it sounds more to me like someone who enters the Anglican set-up and then, discovering that it is not a community of the doctrinally cloned, wants to build a brick wall between her and those who might challenge her own presuppositions. (Whether it’s to keep them out or her in I couldn’t… Read more »

Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)
Guest
Mynsterpreost (=David Rowett)

Two apostolic successions for Anglicans in the US? We’ve got two in this deanery….

http://www.aicuk.org.uk/Peachey.php

I believe his promotion to archbishop is pending. The archiepiscopal palace is next to the sawmill in Barnetby-le-wold, details of how to gat ordained are downloadable from the website.