Thinking Anglicans

CANA update

Updated Monday evening

Julia Duin in the Washington Times reports Church schism set for Va. court.

The mother of all lawsuits pitting Episcopalian against Anglican kicks off today in the red-brick confines of Fairfax County Circuit Court.
The case has amassed numerous court filings involving 11 churches, two dozen lawyers, 107 individuals, the 90,000-member Diocese of Virginia, the 2.3 million-member Episcopal Church and the 18.5 million-member Anglican Province of Nigeria…

Meanwhile, the CANA website has some new material:

  • The “CANA Celebration Sermon” preached on 5 May by Bishop Martyn Minns
  • An Essay: The Church is Flat: A New Anglicanism dated 3 May by Bishop Martyn Minns
  • A copy of THE ROAD TO LAMBETH

The following draft report was commissioned by the Primates of the Council of Anglican Provinces in Africa (CAPA) in February 2006; it was received with gratitude by the CAPA Primates on 19 September 2006 and commended for study and response to the churches of the provinces in Africa…

Updated Monday evening More useful links to background documents on this can be found in Andrew Gerns post at Episcopal Café titled Virginia Split Goes to Court Today. He also links to this op-ed article in the Richmond Times-Dispatch EPISCOPAL DILEMMA The Church Betrays Its Own by the “vice chairman of the Anglican District of Virginia”.

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Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

That “the church is flat” now, only means Don’t confine me within the limits of the hierarchic position I finally made!

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

The CANA website also displays the notoriously un-signed Kigali Communiqué, complete with the claim that it “represents” 20 Church Provinces, some of which were, however, “not present”… “Global South Primates’ Meeting The Anglican Communion Kigali, Rwanda September 2006 Communiqué 1. As Primates and Leaders of the Global South Provinces of the Anglican Communion we gathered at the Hotel des Mille Collines in Kigali, Rwanda, between 19th and 22nd September 2006. We were called together by the Global South Steering Committee and its chairman, Archbishop Peter J. Akinola. Twenty provinces were represented at the meeting*. … * Provinces Represented: Bangladesh**, Burundi,… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

If this document from the Primates of the Council of Anglican Provinces in Africa (CAPA) is the guide document, then it looks like they’re going. First of all, they have no confidence in the boss: _So far as we can see, the Archbishop of Canterbury as Primate of All England has failed to oppose this compromising position and hence cannot speak clearly to and for the whole Communion._ Secondly, his latest musings about keeping people talking up to Lambeth 2008 (the 30 September deadline is not a deadline) conflict with this: _In light of the above, we have concluded that… Read more »

Merseymike
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Merseymike

Just goes to show that it is all about money. Otherwise, those leaving their Church – the Episcopal Church, which is the churtch of which they are a member, not this nebulous, meaningless nonsense called ‘the Anglican ‘Communion’ – would be happy to start afresh, with help from their fundamentalist colleagues.

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

Did anybody hear about the attempted “pie-in-the-face” of the Rev. Armstrong last Sunday (Easter V) in Colorado Springs? Supposedly during the sermon, a person walked in and threw a cream pie at him and missed!!!!

This came from a relative of choirmaster friend of the USA east coast. And there is a link to it!

http://www.queerty.com/queer/religion/reverend-nearly-brought-down-by-baked-goods-20070507.php

Tobias Haller
Guest
Tobias Haller

In addition to the questionable listing of the Archbishop of Canterbury as an “affiliate” to or with CANA (about which he’s made few public comments beyond describing the consecration of Minns as “unhelpful”), the CANA website continues to say it consists of 50 clergy and 30 congregations. There is still (as far as I can find) no published list of congregations. I find this strange, since surely it is the norm for diocesan web-sites to list their parishes, and contact information, so that interested persons might find out where they are in order to attend worship.

Steve Lusk
Guest
Steve Lusk

Had the Washington Times reporter done her homework, instead of taking the claims of the CANAites as gospel, she would have found that it was the breakaway churches that did the first “about face.” On January 16, their lawyers threatened Bishop Lee and other diocesan officials with legal action for trespass should they “set foot” on the property. That triggered the Virginia statue on adverse possession and required the Diocese to file suit or risk being found to have abandoned its claim.

Leonardo Ricardo
Guest
Leonardo Ricardo

“Did anybody hear about the attempted “pie-in-the-face” of the Rev. Armstrong last Sunday (Easter V) in Colorado Springs? Supposedly during the sermon, a person walked in and threw a cream pie at him and missed!!!!” choirboyfromhell

Oh my yes:

http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/2007/05/pies-parking-tickets-and-commandos.html

Sue
Guest
Sue

a 3-week meeting which has no authority

description of the Lambeth Conference by the Global South Bishops. Except of course when Lambeth passes a resolution they agree with; because then it is authoritative teaching.

John B. Chilton
Guest

(In case readers in the UK don’t know, the Washington Times is owned by the The Rev. Sung Jung Moon.)

The Washington Times: “The mother of all lawsuits pitting Episcopalian against Anglican kicks off today in the red-brick confines of Fairfax County Circuit Court.”

Would that be regular Anglicans versus irregular Anglicans? Wouldn’t that be Episcopalians, in the Anglican Communion, versus Nigerians irregularly in the communion through the Church of Nigeria via a cross-boundary invasion that sticks in the craw of the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Andrew Gerns
Guest

Steve–

I had heard that, but could not find the documentation on line. The votes by themselves, I think, are considered a claim on the property, but I understood that the VA parishes attempted to change their articles of incorporation unilaterally and then ordered the diocese off “their” property. The vote plus the attempt to change the articles is what triggered the suit by the Diocese of VA.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

How exemplary is Bishop Minn’s essay in its mix of realignment spin – better than an old Maytag in its final wash cycle, I’d say – and moments of clear, astute perception. So far as the spin goes, well it is rather too clever to claim that the GC’s which have ordered TEC in the more liberal directions are hierarchichal and old hat, despite our common knowledge that GC carefully represents the whole province and deliberately includes the Holy Spirit working through the House of Bishops and the House of Delegates – lay, plus priest, plus bishops. While the hierarchical… Read more »

Hugh of Lincoln
Guest
Hugh of Lincoln

No list of congregations? Is the whole thing a sham?

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Perhaps it’s another “5 guys and a website” thing?

;=)

Phil
Guest
Phil

“In case readers in the UK don’t know, the Washington Times is owned by the The Rev. Sung Jung Moon.”

So what? How do you propose it affected the reporting of this story?

Jim Pratt
Guest
Jim Pratt

Tobias & Hugh
The reason CANA doesn’t list congregations is that they’re not looking for new members to walk in off the street and join them. That’s much too slow a method of growth (and who knows who might walk in and try to join!!!). Instead, they are looking for whole congregations of like-minded folk to defect.

EPfizH
Guest
EPfizH

Actually, I think it was the Monday morning filing by the congregations of the sunday vote that triggered the suit. By Virginia law, when they filed, that constituted a legal claim to the property. If the diocese did nothing, the congregation’s claim would be validated by the civil authority by default. Truro and Falls Church apparently told the Diocese that they would be filing in advance of doing so and, from some of +Minn’s words, it appears he understood that, because he had notified the diocese, that was sufficient; the diocese’s accession was not needed. When the diocese filed, it… Read more »

John Henry
Guest
John Henry

There is so much lying and spin in the reasserter/Nigerian/CANA press releases, which proves that the love of God in Christ is not in the schismatics. It is their obsession with brute, naked power that motivates and drives them.

Ren Aguila
Guest
Ren Aguila

Phil asked: So what? (re: Washington Times ownership)

Maybe because, if I recall right, the Revd. Sun Myung Moon has been a right-winger (in American terms) for as long as I can remember. The editorial team, it is believed, seems to echo the owner’s ideological leanings.

Jay
Guest
Jay

“The Church is Flat”

Yes, after profuse apologies to Thomas Friedman for the plagiarism and gross misappropriation of the concept, let’s think about this. Minns advocates for the outsourcing of the Anglican Communion’s theological tradition to animistic relative newcomers in the world. Just like the real thing (offshore capitalism), though, there’s not a lot of [spiritual] benefit to the middle-class laity in the West. Only more power for the already-powerful. There’s more neo-colonialism here than meets the eye.

JPM
Guest
JPM

Can you imagine the reaction if the most influential liberal newspaper in the United States were owned by a kidnapping mind control cult headed by a man who says that he is the new messiah, sent to the world because Jesus was a failure?

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Phil wrote: “So what? How do you propose it affected the reporting of this story?”

How do you propose it didn’t?

NP
Guest
NP

if CANA was so unimportant, you guys would not be so worried about it’s progress

(just over 4 months to go to Sept 30th chaps…don’t worry about CANA, hope you are making clear decisions in TEC)

cryptogram
Guest
cryptogram

NP – I don’t imagine I am alone in finding your incessant crowing a little wearisome. You are beginning to sound like the Rabshakeh. Let the reader understand.

Hugh of Lincoln
Guest
Hugh of Lincoln

Minns: “breaking out of their hierarchical straightjackets and connecting directly with other parts of the Anglican Communion”.

In other words, out of one “hierarchical straightjacket” into another one offshore.

I can’t see TEC being remotely intimidated by CANA or 9/30.

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

if +VGR wasn’t so unimportant, you guys wouldn’t be worried about his progress

(just over one year to Lambeth, then we’ll see who pouts and walks, since they’ve already made clear decisions)

Yeah, we understand.

Eddo
Guest
Eddo

James Oaks: “Whoever thought American citizens would have to fight for their own religious freedom against an American church in the land of religious freedom?” When the going gets tough, we over here like to wrap ourselves in the flag, Old Glory. “…those of us desiring to freely worship and serve God, and those who threaten to keep us from doing so.” Who’s trying to prevent them from worship freely? It sounds to me like the Diocese and 815 have said, “Fine, go ‘walk apart’ and ‘worship freely’ and serve God as you are called. Leave us to do the… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

choirboy – I have never said VGR was unimportant. Actually, I have always said that it was his installation which has led to the heightened strife we face in the AC….that makes him very important!

Did you mention Lambeth before you knew VGR is not invited??

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

NP: +VGR is only important because of people like you who persecute him for being honest about himself. His diocese chose to overlook his ‘flaws’, but obviously people like yourself will not; and have now caused the schism for which your ilk will not take any responsibility for. You know my opinions about heresy vs. schism, and I don’t need to keep harping about it (except to you). Keep it up and you’ll get the man canonized for martyrdom. And no I didn’t know [at the time of the prior letter] about him being dis-invited, as it still rumors, and… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Choirboy says “NP: +VGR is only important because of people like you who persecute him for being honest about himself.” This is what is called “victim-mentality” or “tosh”, depending on what circles one may move in. Choirboy – you heard of Lambeth 1.10? It is based on something called the Bible ….which is the foundation of Anglicanism. I am in agreement with both the Bible and the Anglican resolution with regard the presenting issues so I am not against any person, especially not for their honesty, but the AC cannot any longer turn a blind eye to flagrant sin –… Read more »

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

About time they all realised the limitations, errors and cultural containedness of the Bible, then…

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

NP: “This is what is called “victim-mentality” or “tosh”, depending on what circles one may move in.” This is what is called insulting the other party when you haven’t got a good answer to the truthful and accurate allegations. Get dirty when you don’t get your way. Showing your class NP, and again, this is your opinion. NP: “Choirboy – you heard of Lambeth 1.10? It is based on something called the Bible ….which is the foundation of Anglicanism.” And interject some facetiousness. Really helping your cause. NP: “I am in agreement with both the Bible and the Anglican resolution… Read more »

Malcolm French+
Guest
Malcolm French+

NP, have YOU ever heard of Lambeth 1.10? Have you ever READ Lambeth 1.10? If we exclude every bishop who has failed to comply with Lambeth 1.10, then we will be excluding every single bishop in the Church of Nigeria – including the Prince Bishop of Abuja. You see, Lambeth 1.10 was not the simple one-sided document you and the rest pretend it is. Lambeth 1.10 does NOT say that the issue of homosexuality is settled – although the Prince Bishop of Abuja wishes and pretends otherwise. And of course Lambeth 1.10 also includes that pesky demand that the Communion… Read more »

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

Malcolm French-When evangelical types like NP don’t follow parts of the Bible that doesn’t suit them, how can you expect them to follow other instruments (such as Lambeth 1.10) as well? You’re being too kind. Tell us NP, since homosexuality is such a HORRIBLE sin, I guess it would okay for me to have sex with an underage girl, since there’s nothing against underage sex in scripture. Pee-Wee Herman said it best, “I know you are, so what am I?” Now why don’t you do what all those hillbilly fundies do back in my old home and go shun yourself.… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Don’t forget that Lambeth 1998 contains 14 more resolutions.

They might be worth a reading – if only an occasional one ;=)

Chris
Guest
Chris

Could someone tell be what participation in the “listening process” entails? I can honestly say I’ve spoken w/ LGBT people on these issues, many of whom are Christians. A very close family member came out a few years ago and we’ve spent hours talking – w/ me doing most the listening. We’ve had very open and respectful conversations, but my positions haven’t changed. I have a softer heart for issues of sexuality and see my own need for God’s work to be done in my own life, but I still don’t subscribe to the more liberal assertions many on this… Read more »

Malcolm French+
Guest
Malcolm French+

All told then, there were 15 resolutions at Lambeth 1998.

According to the Prince Bishop of Abuja and the rest of the foreign prelates, only 0.5 of those resolutions have any authority. The rest are just filler.

NP
Guest
NP

choirboy / Malcolm – well, there is a liberal called Rowan Williams who is ABC at the moment and even he has been very clear indeed about the meaning of Lambeth 1.10 with regard to the present crisis in the AC…..even he is not pretending that Communion has departed from 1.10, even if some have blatantly ignored it and expect everyone else to accept their “integrity” as they contradict scripture and the explicit teaching of the AC. But you go ahead and revise its meaning and revise history as to the events which have brough the AC to this point… Read more »

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

Chris, It sounds as though you really have listened sincerely. That you haven’t changed your mind is sad, from my point of view, but doesn’t change the fact that I’m delighted you made the effort. However, the majority of conservatives have not listened at all. I doubt many of them have had the deep personal conversations with real lgbt people that you have had. It would be interesting to hear how many parishes, especially conservative evangelical parishes, have invited lgbt people to talk about their personal experience. Some people seem to think that reading a few newspaper articles and posts… Read more »

Malcolm French+
Guest
Malcolm French+

NP – You are simply being dishonest. There was more to Lambeth 1.10 than you are prepared to admit. There was also a very clear call for the Church to be intentional and deliberate in listening to the experiences of homosexual persons. Take a look at the Anglican Communion Office “round-up” of reports on the listening process, and you will find that more than half the provinces in the Communion have not yet complied with that requirement of Lambeth 1.10. In particular, your hero the Prince Bishop of Abuja has produced a report which makes it very clear that he… Read more »

NP
Guest
NP

Malcolm – how many years does the AC have to spend “listening” to arguments which it does not find persuasive? Of course, most people in the AC would define “listening” in a similar way to the OED….but on some issues in the AC, the word has had the revisionist treatment and does not mean ” to listen” but “to agree”. We have listened ad nauseam and we have seen the AC brought to the brink of schism by this “process” and the hypocrisy it breeds. See Lambeth 1.10, Dromatine, TWR, Tanzania, VGR’s exclusion from Lambeth 08…….the AC has listened for… Read more »

Malcolm French+
Guest
Malcolm French+

The Prince Bishop of Abuja has made it clear that he has not listened and he will not listened. It is quite interesting to read Nigeria’s contribution to the reports on the listening process, in which (like a few other provinces) they make it very clear that whatever listening may have been done, it wasn’t to homosexual persons. In fact, his principle activity of late (apart from ecclesiastical invasions) has been to have all homosexuals in Nigeria silenced, along with anyone else who doesn’t hate them. So, NP, please explain to me this interesting position of yours. How is it… Read more »