Thinking Anglicans

press reports on breakaways

The New York Times has Groups Plan New Branch to Represent Anglicanism by Neela Banerjee.

Associated Press had Breakaway Episcopalians Form Partnership.

Reuters had Conservative Episcopalians plot separate church.

The Washington Times has Episcopalians plan to leave denomination by Julia Duin.

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Göran Koch-SwahneNPErika BakerPluralistMJ Recent comment authors
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Pluralist
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Actually, hidden in the presentation is the difficulty they now have in overcoming the different lines of authority they have up above. They have a real problem with co-ordination. What they will find most difficult is producing what they should have planned for, to be effective – one clear denominational alternative. Which brings us to the UK. One thing the planners for the incursions here will want to do – and why an ultimatum is too early – is to try and have a consistent other Church, with one line of authority and one Covenant, one identity and one clear… Read more »

NP
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NP

Maybe we need a new Anglican church in the US as TEC USA does not seem to be doing a good job at all…..

44% of Americans go to church…..so why is “inclusive”, in-touch, modern, welcoming TEC USA declining so pathetically (with half its clergy set to retire in the next 10 years?)????

Here are some numbers:
http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6805

Merseymike
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Merseymike

So, if there are already all these conservative evangelical churches for Americans to attend – why create another one?

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

“44% of Americans go to church…..so why is “inclusive”, in-touch, modern, welcoming TEC USA declining so pathetically (with half its clergy set to retire in the next 10 years?)????”

24% of US population are Roman Catholics, who are told that attending church on Sunday is a requirement, not attending a sin at least equivalent with theft.

As for the retirement rate, what has that to do with church attendance? I think it has far more to do with the financial appeal (unfortunately) of the ministry (and it affects EVERY denomination…RCs have empty seminaries, too).

Pluralist
Guest

Decline in US attendance in churches has been going on for decades. It includes even the evangelical churches. I’ve looked myself at those coloured maps that show the decline. As regards evangelical-charismatic churches, one thing to notice is the lack of older people in them. There is a good reason for this, and it is that people leave. The churches that recruit – and this is uneven among the evangelical-charismatics – also lose people. All of these leavers have personal reasons but in general the cultural similarity that allows people in does not suit when people change culture through their… Read more »

Frank
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Frank

NP insists on using virtueonline as a source. Don’t do that! It makes you look silly. It gives me the giggles. And people will think you are rather gullible.

Malcolm+
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Malcolm+

I found the assorted articles interesting not for what was mentioned but for what was ignored. An ill-informed reader would assume that 51 current bishops of the Episcopal Church were gathered at the Pittsburgh cabal. In fact, merely 5 (or 6) of the bishops make any pretence of being current members of the Episcopal Church. Perhaps a dozen more can be said to be a part of the recent “African” invasion. However, more than half of the bishops present apparently belong to an assortment of tiny schismatical bodies dating back as far as 1873, with the bulk of those being… Read more »

dave p
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Ah, the ever so inaptly named “virtue online”

Well, I guess technically the online part is correct.

And yes, by all means reduce a very complex social phenomenon that affects every denomination in the country to a few irrelevant factoids.

If the church in the US is dwindling, what does that say for the UK? Is church attendance even in double figure percentages any more?

Anglicanus
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Anglicanus

One of my problems with Mr Virtue is his bad manners. He constantly referes to the Presiding Bishop as Mrs Schori. – Does anybody else find this offensive?

NP
Guest
NP

Anglicanus – I agree, he can be very rude in various ways…..I wish he would not do that

– but I trust a rude, honest man more than smiling, polite doublespeakers.

Susan in Georgia
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Susan in Georgia

For those interested in American perceptions of American evangelicals at this time, please see http://www.barna.org. It’s latest update is titled: “A New Generation Expresses Its Frustration and Skepticism with Christianity.” The Barna Group is a research and polling group run by evangelicals for evangelicals. However, they attempt to be as objective as possible designing and conducting their research. Notable nugget: The age group studied, 16 to 29 year olds, perceives Christianity as “anti-homosexual” by percentages of 91 percent for non-Christians and 80 percent for born-again Christians surveyed. The young Christians express concern that their churches give them no guidance for… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

Very intersting, Susan in Georgia.

http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdateNarrow&BarnaUpdateID=280

This includes the text: “this is not a passing fad wherein young people will become “more Christian” as they grow up.”

We discovered the same looking at a working class estate on Longhill Estate, where effectively church attendance had all but collapsed. The older generation as more religious are passing, the younger do not get more religious as they get older.

NP
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NP

Susan….I love it, you ask questions but never apply them to TEC! How many young people associated with TEC? How many TEC vicars to retire in the next 10 years?? How many coming to TEC churchs on a Sunday? …..just 800k and falling year on year in the US where 44% go every week!! TEC PEOPLE WANT TO PREACH ABOUT RELEVANCE??????????? You would have a point if “conservative” churches inside and outside TEC were weak and liberals saw lots of young people warming to their “inclusive” gospel….but that just ain’t happening! Do you even realise that?

MJ
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MJ

Anyone notice something odd about the folowing statements: “My own support for women in holy orders is well known. Global Anglicanism has said that there are, in fact “two integrities” here, both arguable from Holy Scripture, and – to employ Hooker’s method — less so from Tradition. I am convinced that an honest century of reception will sort this one out. I am also persuaded that our God has challenged us to deal with this issue, either because He does intend to bless this new understanding or because He has it in mind that we Anglicans will best find ourselves… Read more »

Pluralist
Guest

Perhaps I should follow the numbers and join the great unchurched!

NP
Guest
NP

Pluralist – I am sure you find the church offers a greater welcome than the world…do you not?

Pluralist
Guest

Parts do, NP. I’m not prepared to accept the terms and conditions that some would impose for the “welcome”, and I don’t have to anyway.

NP
Guest
NP

and the world, Pluralist?

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

The world, NP, is as mixed a bunch as the church.
Some welcoming and open and searching for truth, others bigotted, narrowminded and trying to impose their own values.

You see, there is no “right thinking”, no guaranteed safe path to secure bliss.

Christianity gave us the concepts of freedom and responsibility. We can try, but we cannot abdicate them to others, whether they’re of the world or of the church. We have to make the right judgements whichever circle we find ourselves in.

And don’t make the mistake of believing that Christ can only be found in the church!

NP
Guest
NP

Erika – do not make the mistake that some who seek to co-opt him into justifying their behaviour really have his support…..he was not for sale and he always stuck to the truth of the Father in total, self-sacrificial obedience

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

NP,

you don’t even know if there is a “behaviour”…