Thinking Anglicans

Lambeth and New Hampshire

Episcopal News Service carries a report titled Lambeth invitation ‘not possible’ for Robinson. It links to two word processing files, but see below.

The House of Bishops was informed March 10 that full invitation is “not possible” from the Archbishop of Canterbury to include Bishop Gene Robinson of New Hampshire as a participant in this summer’s Lambeth Conference of Anglican bishops.

Robinson, addressing the House, urged the other bishops of the Episcopal Church to participate fully in the conference, and thanked all who are willing to “stay at the table.”

Robinson told the House that he respectfully declined an invitation to be present in the conference’s “Marketplace” exhibit section.

Robinson confirmed for ENS that he plans to be in Canterbury during the July 16-August 3 once-a-decade gathering, but not as an official conference participant or observer…

Episcopal Café carries more information here in Full invitation for Robinson “not possible” including the full text of:

Report from Bishops Ed Little, Bruce Caldwell and Tom Ely to the House of Bishops regarding conversations about Bishop Gene Robinson’s participation at the Lambeth Conference.

And also, here in Bishop Gene Robinson responds, the full text of his remarks to the House of Bishops.

See also Daily Account from the House of Bishops for Monday, March 10.

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Wormwood's Doxy
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Wormwood's Doxy

Does Rowan Williams *really* think this is what Jesus would do? Take a man who has asked to pray and study the Bible with him, and, instead, put him on display in the “marketplace” to be gawked at and mocked?

If this is the New and Improved Anglican Communion, you lot can have it, because I can see nothing of God in it.

Aaron Orear
Guest

“Robinson told the House that he respectfully declined an invitation to be present in the conference’s “Marketplace” exhibit section.”

The exhibit section? I wonder if they realize how bad that really sounds…

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

Absurd. Impossible.

Thsoe are the first words that occur in reading this–that the Archbishop of Canterbury can declare that a “full invitation” to Lambeth is “not possible” for a duly-chosen and consecrated bishop of the oldest sister church to the CoE is ridiculous.

Rowan is letting a rump minority set the agenda.

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

Hope you’re happy David wh, Margaret, NP, Chris (whatever one you are) and the rest of “you”. I hope that you can someday look at your collective selves in the mirror and think that you are doing God’s work in all of this, by allowing this to happen to this man.

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

Well, of course the refusal to invite VGR as duly elected bishop of NH is regrettable, and yet – what else is new? I do not follow Jesus of Nazareth, mainly because Canterbury or Nigeria or any number of other loud nay-sayers preach that I cannot do so without changing my embodiment in the misguided and needlessly suffering directions of their own preferments, no matter how conscientious their allegedly mainstream views may be. I follow Jesus because Coming Out reintroduced me to the Risen Lord – whom otherwise I am forbidden to know and/or follow by just this sort of… Read more »

Martin Reynolds
Guest
Martin Reynolds

I was saddened by the Bishop of New Hampshire’s letter. His appeal not to be “cut off “ is surely all too late? Bo33 did just what the Windsor Report asked. In effect there will be no more of him for the foreseeable future; it is a terrible isolation, an isolation mapped out in detail by the Windsor Report. Perhaps he has not noticed yet just how deeply we are betrayed? TEC bishops have apparently now bowed their heads to the claim that his ordination was a mistake having already agreed that it will not happen again, Rowan Williams has… Read more »

Giles Fraser
Guest
Giles Fraser

But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all! You do not understand that it is better for you to have one man die for the people than to have the whole nation destroyed.” (John 11: 49-50)

Pluralist
Guest

A market place exhibit. Give him a good prod while you pass – how much will you bid?

Another one for the Rowan Williams scrapbook, to go over with friends after he retires or resigns.

bls
Guest

I’m with drdanfee on this one; who cares about Lambeth and yet another gathering of the pointy-heads? It’s completely irrelevant; better to be outside where the real stuff goes on. What would be nice, though, is if the Exalted Purple Ones would summon up the guts to censure Peter Akinola publicly for his support for the writing of fascist anti-gay laws in his country. THAT would be something to applaud. But of course I’m not holding my breath on that one, because we’ve already seen what the Anglican Communion is all about in that regard. No, it’s better to be… Read more »

UnaKroll
Guest

I sit here in England and mourn with you Gene Robinson, but such dignity and love will pevail in the end. solitary

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

Yet more examples of institutional homophobia which back up my decision to leave the church and look for other, more reasonable worldviews.

Humanism makes a lot more sense at this point.

JCF
Guest
JCF

As his back-stabbing of Jeffrey John marked the beginning, so will *this obscenity* mark the END (Please dear God!) of Rowan’s Cantuar occupation.

Lord have mercy!

Joe Cassidy
Guest

I have a seven yr old son who tonight is complaining of a tummy ache because he misses his Mum, who is staying overnight in Leeds. His pain is real, it’s touching. It’s even a wonderful kind of pain (even if he doesn’t think so), because there’s love on both sides. But what about Gene? It’s not just the pain of missing someone for one night, but the pain of being virtually cast out, disowned by the ones he loves. And unlike my son, whose cloud of pain has a truly sweet lining, there is no certainty of love on… Read more »

christopher+
Guest
christopher+

Giles, your word – your quote, that is – in the Archbishop’s ear! May it ring there unpleasantly. Indeed, even in the banal interest of church politics, the price of such spiritual brutality is ultimately exacted in human flesh. Or do those who continue to perpetrate such intentional exclusion really believe that they play no active role, for example, in LGBT teens’ giving in to despair and suicide when they hear repeatedly – and in many different ways, like this one – that they and “those like them” are somehow “fundamentally disordered” and universally unwelcome? These are not proud times… Read more »

Ann
Guest

Get a button to wear at Lambeth at Cafe Press
http://www.cafepress.com/episcostuff.239255207

thomas bushnell, bsg
Guest

“Not possible” is Newspeak for “I choose not to.” Christian adults are supposed to take responsibility for their actions, at the very least, and not hide behind euphemisms carefully cast in the passive voice without attribution.

One uses such a euphemism, of course, because one is deeply ashamed of one’s actions.

Prior Aelred
Guest

But it is clear that Gene Robinson has already won (& Rowan Williams has lost — God does not see as humans see).

Mark Bennet
Guest
Mark Bennet

I do think that a great deal of comment on current controversies lacks an eschatalogical dimension which transcends talk of winning or losing in relation to Lambeth 2008. Tonight I was asked by an young adult confirmation candidate ‘what does God think of my two brothers who think so differently from me’. And I said that God loves them in Jesus – and the children of St Matthew’s Primary School (in my previous post) had taken 4 1/2 years to teach me that my basic job description was to tell people that God loves them. That’s Rowan and Gene and… Read more »

david wh
Guest
david wh

Giles Fraser may well have a point – that +Rowan is making Gene Robinson, an innocent man, into a scapegoat – if +Rowan really believes that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality (which I think he *has* indicated is his personal belief). But the real model should be St Paul’s reaction when he heard of sexual immorality going undisciplined in sex-soaked Corinth (not too dissimilar to 21st c. USA/UK!): “It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father’s wife. And you are… Read more »

Richard Lyon
Guest
Richard Lyon

What is it going to take to send Rowan Williams off to some quiet out of the way place? He is a serious embarrassment to the Church of England and the government of the United Kingdom.

Richard Lyon
Guest
Richard Lyon

What is it going to take to send Rowan Williams off to some quiet out of the way place? He is a serious embarrassment to the Church of England and the government of the United Kingdom.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

David Wh:

If you equate “sex-soaked Corinth” with a loving, committed relationship between two consenting adults, then the problem is with your viewpoint, not with the relationship.

Accept that Paul–or those who transcribed his writings much later–was a man of his time and place, and that if he lived among us today, his view of human sexuality would be informed by what we now know of biology, psychology, anthropology and sociology…and would be very different from what he expressed in his letters.

BTW–can you find anything in the words of *Christ* about same-sex relationships? (Hint: There isn’t anything.)

Pluralist
Guest

I have uncovered a letter from Rowan to Gene out of my dark imagination:

http://pluralistspeaks.blogspot.com/2008/03/bishop-refuses-to-be-exhibited.html

Presumably Michael Poon will see this as part of the new impatient blog world, and I plead guilty as sin. Sometimes you end up guilty as sin, when there is sin masquerading as something religious and of the good.

bls
Guest

David Wh, your entire argument rests on the premise that gay sex is immoral. But that’s exactly the question; that’s exactly what’s at issue. Which is why your post is completely irrelevant in the context of this discussion; we don’t believe that gay sex is immoral. We don’t believe it after a Reasoned consideration, and we don’t believe the Bible says so, either. Lesbianism, for instance, is nowhere mentioned anywhere in the Bible. (No, most likely not in the highly ambiguous Romans 1, either – at least, St. Augustine didn’t think so. Certainly not anywhere else.) So, please: repeating the… Read more »

chourboyfromhell
Guest
chourboyfromhell

David wh, how did you ever manage to get up that big, tall pedestal?

Why don’t you start confessing your sins before you have the gall to demand it out of my bishops.

counterlight
Guest
counterlight

“until TEC GC repents of approving the election and consecration of someone committed to a sinful sexual relationship, and signs up to a satisfactory convenant to show they are committed to returning to the apostolic catholic faith.” All based on a set of false premises: false to the evidence (out of date science discredited decades ago and pseudo-scientific claims), false to experience (the lives of actual people rather than some gnostic cloud cuckoo land of pure idea), and above all, false to justice and charity (Phelps and the Neo-Nazis are on YOUR side. Think hard about that). I’m puzzled why… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“… I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present.”

Dave dear, do you really, in your heart of hearts, believe that St Paul would say such a thing “judge”, in the first person?

Cheryl Va.
Guest

I do wish the conservatives would apply their refusal to not associate or mingle with abusers, idolators, pedophiles, adulterers, slanderers, deceivers and all that would aid and abet such souls within their own ranks.

Their whole infrastructure would collapse in less than a week if the full truth was known about with whom they associated and what they had forgiven within their own ranks.

But of course it won’t because they have no remorse or shame about their own loathsome conduct or partiality in matters of the law.

Erika Baker
Guest
Erika Baker

““But the real model should be St Paul’s reaction when he heard of sexual immorality going undisciplined in sex-soaked Corinth”

I’ll bear that in mind next time there’s an orgy going on in all of our bedrooms, the children are being corrupted by all the sex crazed gays I share my life with, and the pets hide in fear.

Ah, the amazing lives of everyday country folk!”

Chris
Guest
Chris

May God’s peace be with you, choirboyfromhell. You read a lot into my sparse comments.

Personally, I was struck by Robinson’s identification of himself with the lost sheep of Jesus’ parable. Is there a part of him that wants to be rescued and brought back into the flock?

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

“I have uncovered a letter from Rowan to Gene out of my dark imagination”

My my my! You got the tone, the excruciatingly convoluted and often passive voice syntax, the sinsiter whistlings of ‘whilsts,’ the pandering to GAFCONistas AND the total disregard for the humanity of +Gene and all othert glbts.

I wonder of the if the ABC were to read this if he would recognize himiself?

Richard Ashby
Guest
Richard Ashby

This is a disgrace. +Rowan’s invitation to the ‘market place’ just plunges new depths in contrast to +Gene Robinson’s quiet dignity.

Fr. Shawn
Guest
Fr. Shawn

I’m banking on the fact that there is a part of all of us that feels like the lost sheep in Jesus’ parable, that Jesus is looking for me as he is looking for you, and that it is our call as Christians to reconcile one another to each other and to God, not to drive wedges and obstacles between one another. Imitatio Christe!

christopher+
Guest
christopher+

David wh, Chris,

It is as I said above, so “congratulations” if it feels to you that this is what you merit for your active role in this, which, of course, has significance and impact well beyond any issues of church politics and ordination policies.

“By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matthew 7:20)

Merseymike
Guest
Merseymike

He is already in the flock, Chris. He is a human being. Its sad that a small part of that chooses to reject him, but that speaks volumes about them and their religion

choirboyfromhell
Guest
choirboyfromhell

When you exude reflections about statements made by +VGR about himself, you invite a lot of projection from those sparse comments, Chris.

JND
Guest
JND

“It sounds still to be, all about Anglican fears of Gay Cooties of all things”

DDF, let’s say you intentionally dumped lice on your head every morning. Do you really think you bear no responsibility for any ostracism you’d face? Aren’t you really ostracizing yourself?

JCF
Guest
JCF

“David Wh, your entire argument rests on the premise that gay sex is immoral.”

BLS: that’s not only David’s entire argument, it’s his entire religion!

*****

“I was struck by Robinson’s identification of himself with the lost sheep of Jesus’ parable. Is there a part of him that wants to be rescued and brought back into the flock?”

Well sure, Chris: rescued from exile, rescued from being made the scapegoat. That much is obvious.

Or are you “reading a lot into +Gene Robinson’s sparse comments”?

christopher+
Guest
christopher+

Well said, by the way, Cheryl Va.!

The selective obsession of so many with sexual ethics leading to the cognitive exclusion of other ethical and moral issues is frightening at best, and dangerous, of course, much of the time.

david wh
Guest
david wh

Pat O’Neill: “If you equate “sex-soaked Corinth” with a loving, committed relationship between two consenting adults…”

I didn’t. I equated sex-soaked Corinthian society with sex-soaked US/UK society. The mess caused is becoming ever clearer: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7290088.stm Sexual indulgence produces all sorts of disorders.

ps. Almost no serious scholars (liberal of conservative) doubt that Paul authored 1 Corithians, and that it dates from 55AD (plus or minus about one year)

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

JND:

“”It sounds still to be, all about Anglican fears of Gay Cooties of all things”

DDF, let’s say you intentionally dumped lice on your head every morning. Do you really think you bear no responsibility for any ostracism you’d face? Aren’t you really ostracizing yourself?”

Oh, my, not the old saw that gays CHOOSE to be gay? I thought we dealt with that falsehood months ago.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“Sexual indulgence produces all sorts of disorders.”

Are you calling homosexuality a “disorder”? Modern psychiatric medicine disagrees.

“ps. Almost no serious scholars (liberal of conservative) doubt that Paul authored 1 Corithians, and that it dates from 55AD (plus or minus about one year)”

Fine–but I doubt the text we have can be definitively determined to be entirely his…not after 500 years of hand-copying, not to mention multiple bad translations.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

David W wrote: “ps. Almost no serious scholars (liberal of conservative) doubt that Paul authored 1 Corinthians, and that it dates from 55AD (plus or minus about one year)”

Well, most of it, anyway ;=)

But some of it comes from the Pastorals’ edition of the Letters (of Smyrna) and the Chapters are Scholastic, fashioned by (later = 1218) Cardinal Langton, who was (later still) to become the ABC.

And the translations (much into Abstinence and Mandatory Celibacy) are not so reliable…

Generally, the elder the translation, the more reliable… only the ideologically un-interesting parts tend to be un-changed ;=)

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

There seems to be no foundation for Strabon’s stories about “sex-soaked” Corinth in his Geographica.

The 2 temples of Aphrodite were quite small. No room for thousands of Cult prostitutes.

Furthermore, this pretends to be about the previous Corinth, destroyed in 146 BC by Lucius Mummius. Julius Caesar founded the city Paul knew in 44 BC.

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

As to 1 Cor, there are those s e r i o u s scholars who regard it as being composed for a mid (or late) 2nd century (3rd edition) of the Letters, and being 3rd and 2nd Cor, in that order (making today’s 2nd Cor the 1st preserved letter), with the division at 1st Cor 8. And that this composition happened some time after Romans (apparently not known to the 1st edition of 7 Letters) was added in Marcion’s edition c:a 144 (with additions). The general idea being, that the 1st edition had deutero-Pauline Ephesians for a foreword (quoting… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

“Alexandrian redaction” means that it includes non Pauline Hebrew (with Clemens’ infamous Letter-ending).

JND
Guest
JND

Pat O’Neill: “Oh, my, not the old saw that gays CHOOSE to be gay? I thought we dealt with that falsehood months ago.”

Not choose their desires, but they choose to proselytize it and spread falsehood about what the Bible says about it. And most importantly, choose to act on it. Desires are not be considered a justification for any other action. Why here?

david wh
Guest
david wh

Goran, Yes, it seems probable that Paul was married and his wife left him, per 1 Cor 7:15-16. But theories of 1 Cor being a composite of two letters, redacted together well after 55AD are just that – theories. They are at least as complex as any “problems” in the text that they purport to explain. A simpler explanation is that Paul added to the letter (after 4:18?) as more people arrived in Ephesus with stories of the misbehaviour in Corinth.. He even refers to two different reports in the text itself 1:11 cf 16:17.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

“Pat O’Neill: “Oh, my, not the old saw that gays CHOOSE to be gay? I thought we dealt with that falsehood months ago.” Not choose their desires, but they choose to proselytize it and spread falsehood about what the Bible says about it. And most importantly, choose to act on it. Desires are not be considered a justification for any other action. Why here?” Why would a loving God give a human being a desire–an innate sexual desire–that he was forbidden to fulfill? Why would a loving God wish to frustrate one of his most beloved creatures in that fashion?… Read more »

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Dear David,

Since there are n o 1st century NT Texts at all, a l l is theory!

; = )

(Which doesn’t answer the questions, anyway. We can only surmise Impossible, Likely, Probable, Certain)