Thinking Anglicans

more on the ACNA debate – part 2

Updated yet again Tuesday evening

See earlier list of pro-ACNA items.

The Church Times headline is Synod holds off from ACNA.

THE General Synod declined on Wednesday afternoon to express a desire to be in communion with the Anglican Church in North Amerca (ACNA).

But, “aware of the distress caused by recent divisions” in the Anglican Churches of the US and Canada, it recognised and affirmed the desire of those who had formed ACNA to be part of the Anglican family, and “acknowledged that this aspiration, in respect both of relations with the Church of England and membership of the Anglican Communion, raises issues which the relevant authorities of each need to explore further”.

Earlier in the week, Matt Davies of ENS had reported Church of England says no to full communion with breakaway entity.

Church Mouse For the avoidance of doubt – the CofE did not ‘recognise’ the ACNA yesterday

Simple Massing Priest “Just a flesh wound”

Lionel Deimel Declaring Victory and Moving On

Scott Gunn Parsing Synod — what have they done?

Jim’s Thoughts resolution

Colin Coward Lorna Ashworth’s motion about the Anglican Church in North America

ask the priest Synod, ACNA and the FCE – A narrowly-avoided theological misstep

Updates

More from Simple Massing Priest
SOMEBODY on the Anglican Right is lying
and
Another lie from the Anglican Right

Justin Brett ACNA-Related Ramblings

Stand Firm has discovered another document, Copy of TEC Memo Circulated at CoE Synod.

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Bill Dilworth (BillyD)
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Lionel Deimel links to an LA Times article in which +Duncan gives up even a semblance of telling the truth:

“”We had never asked for anything. British understatement being what it is, I think they went very far down the field. They have basically said they favor overlapping provinces here.” “

Charlotte
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Charlotte

The general tenor of post-Synod commentary among TEC’s supporters and well-wishers seems to be “Hurrah! Ashcroft motion comprehensively wrecked! Nothing to worry about; C of E on our side; we can all relax now.” The ACNA activist Michael Howell’s comment on Stand Firm! gives a somewhat different impression, which is (I think) cause for our continuing concern. Enough so that I break a firm rule and post it, with apologies, to a second thread: Howell writes “[a]s one of the ACNA representatives and as someone who worked on strategy with Lorna Ashworth, and a host of other CoE delegates this… Read more »

JPM
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JPM

There is a point at which spin becomes blatant falsehood, and I think Duncan has now passed it beyond any doubt.

Father Ron Smith
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Father Ron Smith

“So, while the resolution nicely acknowledges that the founders of ACNA want to be part of the Anglican Communion, it is actually pretty explicit that they are not.” Malcom+’s take on ‘Simple Massing Priest’ puts the matter, I feel, in pretty clear perspective. The fact that Lorna Ashton’s Minders in ACNA were denied their recognition 3 times by General Synod should give a clear enough message to her and to them that the Church of England is not ready to accommodate schismatics. A further shock to ACNA and the Dissidents must have occurred when General Synod voted to make a… Read more »

Malcolm+
Guest

While I think that “our side” clearly won the contest, Charlotte is quite right to say that we are nowhere near the opportunity to let our guard down.

The scismatical thieves and liars will continue to theive and lie. Although Matt Kennedy has admitted the devastating defeat they suffered, Bob Duncan and the rest of his hoods and cronies are out spreading false tales everywhere anyone will listen.

Newlin
Guest
Newlin

Let me get this straight. Archbishop Duncan says “we had never asked for anything”. Lorna Asworth says “For the avoidance of doubt, I wish to emphasize that the genesis of this motion lies entirely with myself in discussion with a handful of friends who are members of this Synod. Neither I nor others have been asked to bring this motion by representatives of ACNA. They have simply supplied information on request.” Michael Howell says “[a]s one of the ACNA representatives and as someone who worked on strategy with Lorna Ashworth, and a host of other CoE delegates…”. Someone is not… Read more »

dr.primrose
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dr.primrose

Today Kendall Harman’s website posted an e-mail from the Anglican Diocese of Quincy (ACNA), which includes this sentence: “The Diocese of Quincy is a founding member diocese of the Anglican Church in North America, which was recognized this week by a resolution by the General Synod of the Church of England, the mother-church from which the 78-million member Anglican Communion grew.” The spin continues.

http://www.kendallharmon.net/t19/index.php/t19/print_w_comments/28282/

Malcolm+
Guest

Good catch, Newlin.

Now, it is possible that Archbishop Bob and Synod Member Laura are telling the truth and it’s Michael Howell who’s lying.

But it makes more sense that Michael Howell is (inadvertently) telling the truth while Bob Duncan and Lorna Ashworth are lying.

And it does match both of their track records very well.

Robert Ian williams
Guest
Robert Ian williams

Heres a statement from the so-called American Anglican Council ( a front for ACNA)……note they make no mention of divorce and re-marriage…thats how traditional they are…

Human Sexuality: Sexuality is inherent in God’s creation of every human person in his image as male and female. All Christians are called to chastity: husbands and wives by exclusive sexual fidelity to one another and single persons by abstinence from sexual intercourse. God intends and enables all people to live within these boundaries, with the help and in the fellowship of the Church.

If you can’t jump the bar simply lower it… nice one ACNA

Göran Koch-Swahne
Guest

Newlin said: “Someone is not telling the truth.”

Goes with the territory.

Cynthia Gilliatt
Guest
Cynthia Gilliatt

“There is a point at which spin becomes blatant falsehood, and I think Duncan has now passed it beyond any doubt.”

Having kept track of Dunkin’s writings, actions, and utterences over the last several years, I suspect he is not consciously lying, but rather, really believes what he says. It is why some people refer to him as Delusional Dunkin’. That does not make him or his handlers and fellow liars and thieves any less dangerous.

Jim Pratt
Guest
Jim Pratt

If Duncan is telling the truth, why were Don Harvey and others at General Synod?

Robert Ian williams
Guest
Robert Ian williams

They are proud to be in ” communion ” and accepted by a Church which condones gay relationships, by granting de facto recognition to gay couples…. WOW!

Tobias Haller
Guest

Isn’t this what they call putting fantasies on the ground?

Father Ron Smith
Guest
Father Ron Smith

Kendall Harmon’s blog reveals just how far from the truth the ACNA associates can be. For their Diocese of Quincy to think that the Church of England General Synod actually acknowledged their membership of the ‘Anglican family’, when it merely noted their desire to ‘remain’ in that *family* (together with lots of other sodalities calling themselves by one ‘anglican’ title or another) – without actually saying anything at all about their claim to be members of the more officially entitled ‘Anglican Communion’. One supposes that the people in the pews of ACNA, having largely been led by the nose by… Read more »

Robert Ian williams
Guest
Robert Ian williams

Charles Raven criticises Rowan Williams by saying… He used the device of inviting Synod to adopt a ‘three dimensional’ approach, no doubt suggested by the highly popular 3D film ‘Avatar’. However, everyone knows that the film is fiction and the 3D effect is simply that – an effect. It is not reality and likewise what Rowan Williams is offering is a fiction in 3D – that there is a third dimension which will allow everyone to live together without sacrificing their integrity Raven is an advocate of ACNA… Yet within ACNA we have two opposing interpretations of what Christianity means……… Read more »

Pat O'Neill
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Pat O'Neill

Robert:

Having just finished Brian D. McLaren’s book “A New Kind of Christianity”, I suggest that Rowan Williams’ “three-dimensional approach” may actually come out of McLaren’s work. McLaren speaks of a three-dimensional biblical narrative and a 3-D “participatory eschatology”. It’s far too complex to get into in a short comment here, but I recommend McLaren to any Thinking Anglican…or even a Thinking Roman, like yourself.

Pat O'Neill
Guest
Pat O'Neill

Robert:

Having just finished Brian D. McLaren’s book “A New Kind of Christianity”, I suggest that Rowan Williams’ “three-dimensional approach” may actually come out of McLaren’s work. McLaren speaks of a three-dimensional biblical narrative and a 3-D “participatory eschatology”. It’s far too complex to get into in a short comment here, but I recommend McLaren to any Thinking Anglican…or even a Thinking Roman, like yourself.

Sara MacVane
Guest
Sara MacVane

I don’t agree at all with Justin Brett’s favorable attitude towards ACNA’s request – how would he feel if the Free Church of England asked to be affirmed (ie to have their desire to be part of the AC affirmed)?

Father Ron Smith
Guest
Father Ron Smith

“Many members and clergy of ACNA congregations have NEVER been members of TEC or the Anglican Church of Canada. Creating a state of full communion would have endorsed groups whose theology could have created problems for the C.of E.” – David, in ‘ask the priest’ – Let’s all hope that this reality – that ACNA is made up of several NON-ANGLICAN entities, some of which have made schismatic breaks with member Churches of the Communion – is taken on board by the Church of England General Synod 2011, as well as the rest of the other ‘Anglican Communion’ Provinces, before… Read more »

drdanfee
Guest
drdanfee

If I recall the Chapman Memo and similar IRD plans correctly, one core strategy has always been – what is accurate? – The Conservative Spin Doctor Presuppositional Strategy? Start with unexamined, unquestioned presuppositions. Use this lexicon to define, categorize, and interpret or read anything and everything that may come your way. A most glaring technique is when the going presuppositional lexicon gets used to shift, change, or alter context which otherwise might affect, alter, or disrupt the spin even as it whirls around the given presuppositional centers. In one way, spin-presup gets used to accept one part of a given… Read more »

MarkBrunson
Guest

Robert Ian Williams,

Something I’ve been longing to say, is that, while I don’t agree with your theology or ecclesiology, I do appreciate your efforts to bring to light both ACNA’s and – at times – our inconsistencies in praxis and belief. There is a nobility in not simply supporting someone who believes as you do on certain subjects, and I appreciate that in you and aspire to it.

Robert Ian williams
Guest
Robert Ian williams

Thank you Mark …… on ACNA, I ‘ve just read the presentation Bishop Harvey ( of canadian ACNA) gave to the C of E Synod…he’s Jim Packer’s new bishop. Yet he reveals he prays to the Virgin Mary and is a preiest o associate of Walsingham.

The whole of Jim Packer’s life has been to denounce the errors of Anglo-Catholicism…. but…..he is prepared to go under a bishop who prays to Mary, and yet affirms the 39 articles, which denounce invocation of Saints!

Rev L Roberts
Guest
Rev L Roberts

Very encouraging indeed bach !

‘Thank you Mark …… on ACNA, I ‘ve just read the presentation Bishop Harvey ( of canadian ACNA) gave to the C of E Synod…he’s Jim Packer’s new bishop. Yet he reveals he prays to the Virgin Mary and is a preiest o associate of Walsingham.

The whole of Jim Packer’s life has been to denounce the errors of Anglo-Catholicism…. but…..he is prepared to go under a bishop who prays to Mary, and yet affirms the 39 articles, which denounce invocation of Saints!

Posted by: Robert Ian williams on Thursday, 18 February 2010 at 9:49pm GMT

Goo ole Cenacle…

PeterK
Guest
PeterK

Robert Ian Williams wrote: “The whole of Jim Packer’s life has been to denounce the errors of Anglo-Catholicism…. but…..he is prepared to go under a bishop who prays to Mary, and yet affirms the 39 articles, which denounce invocation of Saints!” A quotation from Prof. Packer: “Well, if anyone had told me twenty years ago that I would be agreeing with the Anglo-Catholic position on anything, I would have laughed in his face. Today, I find that I agree to the point of calling myself an Evangelical Catholic.” http://missionsociety.blogspot.com/ (Sunday, September 20, 2009, Bishop Keith Ackerman, FiFNA, Visits With Texas… Read more »